On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:26:57 GMT, "
> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:14:54 GMT, (Curly
>Sue) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:39:29 -0400, Bob Pastorio >
>>wrote:
<snip>
>>>As for guaranteeing that people won't cook eggs thoroughly, it's not
>>>the job of the chicken, the farmer, the shipper the store or anybody
>>>else to make sure that the consumer protects himself. "Cover thine own
>>>ass" is good advice.
>>
>>It's not a question of whether anyone makes sure that a consumer
>>protects her/himself. It's a question of selling or not selling
>>pathogen-laden eggs.
>
>Eggs aren't inherently pathogen laden. The chicken doesn't deposit
>disease causing agents into the egg.
She sure can! In fact, that is the problem: salmonella that gets
*in* the egg as it's formed. External salmonella is reduced by
washing of the eggs.
> The point here is that eggs will
>not garner bacteria at room temperature as long as they aren't older
>than a few weeks. I'm not a major grocery store purchasing agent or
>anything, but at least here in the States I'm pretty sure you can
>expect eggs to go from the farm to the grocer in a day or two.
>Therefore, they would be safe anyway, because the expiration date on
>the carton would occur before the eggs went bad, refrigeration or not.
Depends on which state and which season. Growth of bacteria is
related to ambient temperature as well as time. Refrigeration keeps
the eggs in a safe temperature zone.
>> It is most certainly the job of the farmer, the
>>shipper, the store, the restaurateur to make sure that they do not
>>foster the growth of bacteria in the food that they handle.
>
>True, but what if it doesn't make any difference? If the expiration
>dates occur before the eggs would have gone bad at room temp anyway,
>why shouldn't the stores use the refrigerated space for other, more
>profitable items? They don't sell eggs out of date. Hell, they
>probably couldn't if they wanted to. I don't think the stamping of the
>date occurs at the store itself.
>
>> No one
>>should sell spoiled food expecting that everything will be fine if the
>>consumer cooks it correctly.
>>
>Eggzactly! But the stores aren't selling spoiled food, or eggs,
>whatever.
Right- the eggs are refrigerated.
>I've been alternately posting/lurking in this group for a
>while now, and Bob seems to know his stuff. As a matter of fact, I'm
>going to keep the next eggs I buy on the countertop or on a shelf,
>because we use them within a week anyway, and our fridge is always
>crowded. If I don't post back, then you can say Nyaa nyaa! I told you
>so, Bob!
This is not a contest with Bob, nor do I wish to see anything happen
to you just so I can say I told you so :> I am quite comfortable
with my analysis whether or not anyone I know personally gets
salmonellosis. Bob is great on the facts and how things should go if
everyone follows the rules. Where we disagree is risk management.
Lots of people do play the odds and win, because the odds are in their
favor: the incidence of Salmonella contamination is small.
Unfortunately the price is high for those that lose. Do a search for
+salmonella +scrambled and you'll find several instances of salmonella
from scrambled eggs, particularly in food service. I, on the other
hand, do not believe that people should become violently ill and die
as a result of an Ayn Rand philosophy of public health.
Even with refrigeration, eggs are cheap enough. Frankly, it boggles
my mind that you're arguing *against* a reasonable public health
regulation (that also maintains the quality of the product), for the
sake of some hypothetical savings to grocery stores.
>>"Cover thy ass" is a good advice for people who sell products too.
>>
>I agree with you there, but I really do think eggs will remain safe
>for consumption if left unrefrigerated for a reasonable length of
>time. Provided you don't eat them raw, or majorly undercooked. The
>same would hold true for all meat and poultry, I imagine.
>
>candeh
"Eggs will remain safe for consumption"... with qualifications. The
problem is those qualifications are not always met.
Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!