Robert Klute > wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> Robert Klute > wrote
>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>> Robert Klute > wrote
>>>>> Sqwertz > wrote
>>>>>> SMS <SMS >> wrote
>>>>>>> Sqwertz wrote
>>>>>>>> SMS <SMS >> wrote

>>>>>> Happy now? This is getting boring. You will never convince
>>>>>> me that you and any other person who follows religious dietary
>>>>>> restrictions are of sane mind and body. And nothing short of a
>>>>>> scientifically conducted poll would convince us that kosher products
>>>>>> do/don't sell better among non-koshers because they're kosher.

>>>>> To an extent you are right - in this newsgroup we are just speculating as
>>>>> to why. We don't know for sure if it is people who keep kosher, believe
>>>>> kosher is purer or tastes better, have food allergies, keep halal, etc.

>>>> Or even whether they even consider whether its got a kosher label on it or not.

>>>>> But, it doesn't matter.

>>>> Corse it matters, particularly if they dont even check whether its got a kosher label or not.

>>> What doesn't matter is if they do check, why the check.

>> Wrong. We happened to be discussing whether the kosher
>> label significantly increases the sale of particular items.

>>> If they don't it they don't contribute to the increased sales

>> You dont know that they arent buying it because the product
>> appeals to them more than the alternatives available.

>>> and thus not part of the population the manufacturer is targeting.

>> We arent discussing targetting.

> Yes we are,

No we arent.

> adding the Kosher symbol it targeting a group of consumers for whom
> that designation has a positive influence on their purchasing decision.

Wrong when it costs very little to have the kosher label and the manufacturer
just includes it because it adds microscopically to the their total costs.

Thats not targetting, thats just doing everything that might
achieve the best sales while it costs very little to include that.

>>>>> What matters is that the manufacturers believe that
>>>>> getting a kosher designation increases their sales

>>>> You dont even know that. Campbells clearly doesnt believe
>>>> that if they really do only have one item with a kosher label.

>>> Well, yes, that is the point. Campbell's doesn't
>>> believe it is worth the cost for most of their products.

>> And when you havent established that the cost is significant, that
>> clearly shows that Campbells doesnt believe that the kosher label
>> significantly affects sales of at least the products they sell.

> The cost may or may not be significant.

Corse its insignificant with a product which is kosher
without any change in the way its produced.

> Campbell's has decided it is not worth the effort,

You dont even know that they did decide that with the ones that
dont have a kosher lable. They may not care about the jews and
others who choose to buy kosher labelled products just because
they cant find any products labelled as being suitable for their
own silly requirements, and they only got the kosher label for
that one particular product because someone in Campbells
noticed that it would cost peanuts to have the kosher label on
that particular product and so they might as well have it as not.

> and that is there right.

>>> Apparently, just one had enough of a audience, possibly strict vegetarians or vegans.

>> And you dont even know whether Campbells believes that the
>> kosher label significantly increases the sales of the particular
>> product, JUST that the tiny cost of the kosher label is worth
>> spending with that particular item or that they chose to give it a
>> whirl to see if it had any effect on the sales of that particular product.

> I have no idea, and you don't either, as to why Campbell's only has one
> kosher product or even why they got the kosher designation for that product.

Yes, but I wasnt the one making any claim about why or how manufacturers choose
to have a kosher label on their products, let alone the completely unsubstantiated claim
that they do that because of the 'huge' increase of sales that purportedly guarantees.

>> Its sales clearly didnt convince them to bother with any
>> other products if that is the only one with a kosher label.

>>>>> and that the resulting profits more than offset the cost of getting that designation.

>>>> And that in spades.

>>>>> If getting the designation didn't, companies other than those
>>>>> intentionally serving the kosher market, like Hebrew National
>>>>> and Empire, would not bother with it.

>>>> Or the cost of the kosher certification is a trivial part of their total
>>>> costs, so they just take the easy way out and get it when it doesnt
>>>> require any fundamental change in the way the product is produced etc.

>>> Again, they do it when the increase in net revenue exceeds the costs of implementing it.

>> You dont know that, particularly when its going to be very
>> difficult for any manufacturer like Campbell to quantify just
>> what increase in revenue there is from having a kosher label
>> on that particular product, when there are so many other
>> factors that also affect the sales of a particular product.

> That is true for any product, kosher or not, particularly new product introductions.

Yep.

> Why bother introducing any new product when
> you have no idea whether it will sell or not?

Because there is no other viable way to do business.

Its true in spades with movies and music, the most you can ever do
is take a bet on whether it will fly and try it and see, and quite a bit
of the time it flops for reasons that are completely outside your control,
like too many other similar products appear at the same time etc.

>>> I would include the cost of setting up separate production lines or
>>> changing the recipe as part of the costs of getting the designation.

>> The second is very unlikely, and you dont know that it doesnt have
>> a separate production line regardless of the kosher certification.

> I didn't say it would involve a separate production line.
> Only that if it did it would have to be included in the costs.

Thats too obvious to be worth mentioning.

> For example, if Campbell's did decide to do a kosher split pea soup,
> it would have to do it on a separate production line from the split pea
> with ham soup to be kosher. Similarly for the vegetarian vegetable
> soup to be pareve, it could not be prepared or canned on the same
> line as a cream of vegetable soup or any meat containing soup.

Duh.

>>>>> After all profit is profit.

>>>> But it may not be feasible to work out just what
>>>> value the kosher label has in terms of sales.

>>> Maybe not the exact cost,

>> Not even close in fact when so many other factors also affect the sales
>> that a particular product will achieve with an operation like Campbells.

>>> but good enough to whether to do it.

>> Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> If it were easy, everyone would do it or not.

That was EASY TO CLAIM, not easy to determine.

> But that is what surveys, market research, data mining,
> benchmarking, etc are for - helping to make more than a wild guess.

None of those help with determining what the effect on sales will be
of a kosher label with a particular product, because it will be swamped
by all the other factors, particularly who will bother to stock it and
where it ends up on the shelves for consumers to notice etc.

> And, you may be right, Campbell's may have decided it just
> isn't worth the effort to even research it. We just don't know.

Yes, but you were the one claiming that they would have analysed the cost and benefit.

Like I said, you just dont know if they even bothered to do that.

It seems pretty unlikely that they carefully analysed that and determined
that the kosher label would be worth having. MUCH more likely that with
that particular product no production change was required, the cost of
getting the label for the product was a trivial part of the total cost of
production of that particular product and someone decided to give it
a whirl and see what happened since it was so cheap to try.

>>> If you are not that sure, then you do it for one product and see if
>>> there is enough of an increase to justify doing for other products.

>> Pity its impossible to be sure what a change in sales
>> volume of a particular product like that is due to.

> Oh, I don't know. If sales increase by X percent within Y months of
> introducing the kosher version. The odds are pretty good that
> something to do with that process resulted in a a favorable
> perception by the public.

Nope, not when sales are swamped by much more important
factors like what stores bother to give it shelf space, and just
where on their shelves they choose to put it etc.

The only real way to test the kosher label properly would be to release
the product without the kosher label, see it clearly be a product that
does achieve decent sales because it does get decent shelf space,
and then add the kosher label, and see what effect adding the kosher
label has on sales. Even then, thats not likely to prove much because
its hard to be sure whether anyone actually noticed the kosher label
got added, in a line of products where no other product has a kosher
label, and that the change in sales if it occurs wasnt just due to other
factors like someone who gets quite a bit of exposure in food circles
commenting that its about the best veg soup currently buyable etc.

>> It can be something as basic as no one else bothering to produce a soup
>> for vegetarians, whether stores bother to stock that particular soup
>> based on what they decide is likely to appeal to their customers, etc etc etc.

> That's the whole point.

Nope.

> The kosher designation has a broader appeal within the populace
> than just those who keep kosher for religious reasons.

But you dont know that its the kosher label that gives it the better appeal, or
just the fact that its a product that includes no meat and its that that provides
the market appeal when there are so many loons that wont touch meat.

> If it didn't only companies for whom producing kosher
> products is part of their mission statement would do it.

Wrong if it costs peanuts to have the kosher label.

> Although even Coca-Cola finds it worthwhile to ship non-HFC coke during Passover.

Different matter entirely. Plenty ship Xmas specific products in the
appropriate season too. Easter and Thanksgiving etc in spades.