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Paul Grieg Paul Grieg is offline
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Default Throw me in the briar patch - Now a discussion on France

On Jun 10, 9:13 pm, Peter Brooks > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 5:39 pm, Paul Grieg > wrote:
>
> > I don't think he despised food, just wanted to make as little fuss
> > about it as possible.

>
> That seems to be on the way to despising it!


I don't see why.

Do you despise brushing your teeth or dressing? I take the minimum
time necessary to dental health in brushing, and minimum time
dressing. But I don't despise either activity. Quite the opposite. I
see them as necessary, not painful, sometimes mildly enjoyable
activities. I also see that they are necessary. Hardly a recipe for
despising them.

> > > He went to the same school, though, as
> > > Hitler, who ended up suffering from vegetarianism (and was also a non-
> > > smoker), another form of food-hatred, so there might be a school
> > > related connection.

>
> > Vegetarianism is nothing like a disease! There's quite a lot of
> > evidence that vegetarians living longer than omnivores, and little
> > showing the opposite. Certainly -- more evidence needed.

>
> There's plenty of evidence that eating a starvation diet makes mice
> live longer - but you don't find countries with massive starvation
> problems packed with octogenarians, which suggests that it isn't such
> a practical route.
>
> Similarly vegetarians in India have some of the lowest life
> expectancies known...


That's why I said more research needed.

But there is really no solid evidence for or against vegetraianism.

> Vegetarian Myths
>
> by Stephen Byrnes, ND, PhD, RNCP
>
> "An unflinching determination to take the whole evidence into account
> is the only method of preservation against the fluctuating extremes of
> fashionable opinion" -- Alfred North Whitehead


Good quote. But sometimes the evidencs is not there -- which, sums up
much of dietry 'science'.

> Bill and Tanya sat before me in my office in a sombre mood: they had
> just lost their first baby in the second month of pregnancy. Tanya was
> particularly upset: "Why did this happen to me? Why did I miscarry my
> baby?" The young couple had come to see me mostly because of Tanya's
> recurrent respiratory infections, but also wanted some advice as to
> how they could avoid the heartache of another failed pregnancy.
>
> Upon questioning Tanya about her diet, I quickly saw the cause of her
> infections, as well as her miscarriage: she had virtually no fat in
> her diet and was also mostly a vegetarian.


There are many vegetarians who do not miscarry, so he's just wrong in
suggesting that vegetarianism is a necessary and sufficient cause.

> Because of the plentiful
> media rhetoric about the supposed dangers of animal product
> consumption...


Lots of medics also indulge in this rhetoric. he can't just blame the
media.

> Tanya and Bill left with a bottle of vitamin A, other supplements and
> a dietary prescription that included plentiful amounts of animal fats
> and meat.


What if their stance was a moral stance, and they refused to eat
animal products? He would be rather a poor doctor if he couldn't help
them find a balanced vegetarian diet.

> Along with the saturated fat and cholesterol scares of the past
> several decades has come the notion that vegetarianism is a healthier
> dietary option for people. It seems as if every health expert and
> government health agency is urging people to eat fewer animal products
> and consume more vegetables, grains, fruits and legumes. Along with
> these exhortations have come assertions and studies supposedly proving
> that vegetarianism is healthier for people and that meat consumption
> causes sickness and death. Several medical authorities, however, have
> questioned these data, but their objections have been largely ignored.


I agree with this as far as it goes, but it has a carnivore bias.
Notice he doesn't say that a balanced vegetarain diet is less healthy
for people. There's surely a great difference between Tanya's trendy
diet and, say, the balanced diet of a Hindu woman. There are a lot of
Hindu's so vegetarainism doesn't automatically affect reproduction
(unless it encourages it!)

> ... but, as a practitioner who
> has dealt with several former vegans (total vegetarians), I know full
> well the dangerous effects of a diet devoid of healthful animal
> products.


Now he's shifting the ground from vegetarians to vegans. Maybe
realisng that he can't win the argument by using vegetarians as
examples. But his article was not entitled 'Vegan myths'! Keep to the
point!

Medicine is a vague and wooly science, maybe that's why so many
medical writers are vague and wooly.

> It is my hope that all readers will more carefully evaluate their
> position on vegetarianism after reading this article. It is important
> to note that there are different types of vegetarianism, including
> lacto-vegetarian diets (dairy products included) and lacto-ovo-
> vegetarian diets (dairy products and eggs included). The nutritional
> caveats that follow are primarily directed at veganism...


Primarily or wholly? Notice how he is blurring the boundary between
vegetarianism and veganism. Trying to save his daft article. Socrates
used to eat sophists like this for dinner (he wasn't vegan :-)