> http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gid2=1871

A link to some crappy nutritional propaganda?

> No, it isn't.

That is not the consensus of opinion.

> Our own bodies produce cholesterol.

So what, that does not infer you need to add to it.

> Serum cholesterol is
> marginally affected by dietary cholesterol;

It's a margin the wrong way.

> seafood, especially oily cold-water
> fish, are high in cholesterol and help elevate HDL (good cholesterol)
which in
> turn helps lower LDL (bad cholesterol).

I don't eat any dead animals. My TC is a shade over 2, what's yours?

> Consumption of saturated fats (from both
> plant and animal sources) is linked to elevated serum cholesterol levels.

Do oily cold water fish contain saturated fat? How much saturated fat does
the average piece of fruit contain?

> Please support your own claim with evidence.

Page 280 Harpers Biochemistry 24 Ed, a medical students text - "The rabbit,
pig , monkey, and humans are species in which atherosclerosis can be induced
by feeding cholesterol. The rat, dog and cat are resistant."

Now read this post:

"This is interesting:

Primary hyperoxaluria type 1 (PH1) is a recessive disease in which an
enzyme,
alanine:glyoxylate aminotransferase (AGT), is mistargetted from the
peroxisomes
where it functions in the glyoxylate pathway, to the mitochondia (1) where
it is
inefficient. It can be caused by defects in at least 2
glyoxylate-metabolizing
enzymes and leads to excessive urine oxalate excretion resulting in kidney
stones and/or calcification of the kidney which can occur in childhood or
adolescence. Patients used to die on average at age 36 (2), however vitamin
B12
therapy and dietary changes can help to increase lifespan in certain forms
of
the disorder.

"One molecular adaptation to diet that is spread widely across Mammalia is
the
differential intracellular targeting of the intermediary metabolic enzyme
alanine:glyoxylate aminotransferase (AGT), which tends to be mitochondrial
in
carnivores, peroxisomal in herbivores, and both mitochondrial and
peroxisomal in
omnivores." (3)

As we have seen, normal humans express the AGT gene effectively in their
peroxisomes, but when AGT is targetted to the mitchondria such as in the PH1
mutation, it cannot operate effectively. I therefore conclude that humans
evolved through the herbivorous lineage, having evolved peroxisomes,
but not mitochondria, adapted to effective glyoxylate metabolism.

Thanks to Danpure and associates for this useful research, and my friend
Laurie
for sharing it.

John Coleman
---

1) J Nephrol. 1998 Mar-Apr;11 Suppl 1:8-12. The molecular basis of alanine:
glyoxylate aminotransferase mistargeting: the most common single cause of
primary hyperoxaluria type 1. Danpure CJ.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

2) Primary Hyperoxalurias
http://mayoresearch.mayo.edu/mayo/re...eroxaluria.cfm

3) Mol. Biol. Evol. 21(4):632-646. 2004. Differential Enzyme Targeting As an
Evolutionary Adaptation to Herbivory in Carnivora. Birdsey GM, Lewin J,
Cunningham AA, Bruford MW and Danpure CJ.
http://mbe.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/4/632?ct"

> Ipse dixit. Please support your own claim with evidence.

When they give folk tissue transplants, they have to take meds to reduce the
immune system reaction. Common knowledge.

> No, they are not.

Yes they are!

> The basic building block of proteins are amino acids.

People eat _protein_ not amino acids, 100% of the protein does not end up as
amino acids in your stomach. Some survives into the colon where it is
reduced to various bad smelling toxins, some just goes right through your
gut wall into your circulation and innevitably triggers your immune system
for panic you can avoid.

> peptides (amino groups) found in meat are not "foreign" to our bodies. Our
> physiology is sufficient to digest and make use of meat proteins.

Dream on. Undigested meat fragments can be recovered from human urine
sediments for sequencing. Sure you can digest some of it, but that doesn't
make it a good idea.

> >>of natural selection. Our ancestors ate meat and dairy and eggs; they
> > didn't
> >>suffer iron, zinc, or B12 deficiencies at the rates found in vegans.
> >
> > Maybe true,
>
> No, definitely true.

And the evidence over millions of years is? Okay, I accept modern vegan
populations have some issues sometimes. These can be addressed with
introducing a variety of plant foods and a supplement.

> Early diseases were far greater causes of death. People died earlier from
> infections, diarrhea, cholera, etc., and cardiovascular diseases were far
less
> prevalent.

So not a very persuasive argument in terms of health.

Here is another post (about Otzi), the Neolithic corpse who had
atherosclerosis and arthirits, needless to say he was not vegan. But he was
lucky, an arrow killed him before the bad diet:

"There was a very good TV program about Otzi on last week, and they were
talking
about his last meal (as described), as well as how they think he was killed
(by
an arrow). Clearly the hair analysis researchers need to take stock of this
new
evidence. Given that the ice men wore furs, it was surprising to see them
touted
as vegetarians, but that was the best evidence available at the time.

Looks like someone got their sums or assumptions wrong, or maybe the
analysis
was faulty?

This may upset the Paleolithic and Pottenger fanatics, but Otzi was a
typical
sick meat eater:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/inicetran.shtml

"NARRATOR:
The Iceman's health has been a big question since the beginning and he has
regularly been taken out of his fridge for tests. The X-rays revealed a
surprisingly modern complaint.

DIETER ZUR NEDDEN (GERMAN WITH SUBTITLES):
We have found massive calcification in the aorta area of the stomach. We
found
massive calcification in the brain's blood supply. I believe this was caused
by
fat deposits in the walls of the blood vessels which led to calcification.
This
was the result of a metabolic disease like high cholesterol. "

So even if the arrow had not killed him, his diet would have."


John C