Farrell77 wrote:

>"Dutch" > wrote in message
...
>> "farrell77" > wrote
>> > "usual suspect" > wrote
>> > > farrell77 wrote:
>> > > <...>
>> > > >>>>It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
>> > > >>>>natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>Bullshit, you shit-stirring punk.
>> > > >
>> > > > Nope that's clearly what you said, "christian".
>> > >
>> > > That is NOT what I said.
>> >
>> > It certainly is:
>>
>> Do *you* understand the meaning of the expression "nature can be
cruel"?
>Do
>> you think people who say it believe that nature is immoral?
>
>Yes and in most cases probably not, respectively.

I'm amused at the length and fury of the "discussions" on this group
over the most nit-picky, hair-splitting pedantries. :-)

For what it's worth, nature is "amoral", not "immoral", since "nature"
is a system -- not a conscious entity that can distinguish between
right and wrong.

Yes, nature can be "cruel", "cruel" being an adjective that describes
a condition, with or without a conscious motive or perpetrator.

Main Entry: cru·el
Pronunciation: 'krü(-&) l
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): cru·el·er or cru·el·ler; cru·el·est or cru·el·lest
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin crudelis, from
crudus
Date: 14th century
1 : disposed to inflict pain or suffering : devoid of humane feelings
2 a : causing or conducive to injury, grief, or pain <a cruel joke> b
: unrelieved by leniency
synonym see FIERCE

I suppose the objection to certain kinds of human activity is that
humans generally ARE aware of what they're doing; generally DO know
the difference between right and wrong; can make deliberate choices
and act as a perpetrator. The idea of another person consciously
making the choice to kill; to spill anothers' blood, is probably the
primary reason for objection, and not so much that an animal dies per
se.

In terms of human predation, the measure of "cruelty" (or lack of
same) would vary greatly, depending on each separate instance.
Certainly, a clean kill with a bullet would be a less cruel way to die
than being ripped apart by hyenas. OTOH, some of the conditions found
in modern "factory farming" and slaughterhouses appear rather
questionable, and could stand improvement. Therefore, it would be
foolish to make a sweeping generalization of "human predation" per se
since it is manifested in so many different ways.