On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:53:53 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:03:42 -0500, Bob Simon >
>wrote:
>
>>I have three questions about baking bread and hope some of you experts
>>can give me some pointers.
>>
>>I used my machine to mix the ingredients and let it rise twice. At
>>the beginning of the third rise, I removed the dough from the pan,
>>streached it into a longish tube, divided it with a knife, and put the
>>two halves into thin metal baking pans with an anti-stick coating like
>>silverstone.
>>
>>Q1: My wife also has glass baking pans. Which style is better for
>>baking and why?
>
>I use either sort. The glass ones, by their nature, are a bit more
>delicate and unforgiving of kitchen accidents. Although it is
>generally said to lower the heat by 25 deg F when using glass instead
>of metal, I do not do so myself with bread.
>>
>>I put the pans in the oven set to 105 and covered them with a damp
>>dish towel (because someone once suggested that I do so). About an
>>hour later, some dough stuck to the towel when I removed it.
>
>Is this your second rise? Ideally, there should be a first rise in a
>greased bowl. The best flavors develop when this rise (and any
>subsequent proofing) is done at room temperature, or cooler. Even the
>fridge is good for it. 105 deg F is unnecessary.

This is the third rise. Before I take out the dough, the bread
machine has:
mixed and kneaded the dough
40 min first rise
40 sec "gas squeeze out"
36 min second rise

I take the dough out around the beginning of the third rise for three
reasons:
I prefer horizontal loaves,
I don't like the hole left in the bread when you take out the blade,
I lake to get a second loaf.

>
>There are newer trends these days that call for stretching and folding
>the dough during this first "bowl" rise. It makes for better gluten
>development. If you want more information, google "stretch and fold"
>and you can read up on it...
>
>Ok..let's say you are doing a standard first proof. When your dough
>has doubled, you want to gently remove it from the bowl, de-gas it a
>bit, divide it and shape it. Then you can go for your final rise in
>the bread pans (side note again - there are some doughs that get their
>final rise as free-form loaves on baking sheets, on a couche or in
>brotforms. Again, google for interest. Come back with questions).
>
>>
>>Q2: Is the damp towel a good idea and if so, why?
>
>When you have shaped your loaves, you might want to spray your pans
>before you put the dough in. You do want to keep the outside of the
>dough from forming too hard a skin, so try any of the following....
>flour the top, or spray with oil, or butter it. Then cover it gently
>with a *floured* towel or plastic wrap. You can also leave the loaves
>uncoated, then place them, pan and all, into a large plastic bag, that
>is then sealed. That gives it a moist environment for the final
>proof. Some folks put a bowl of water into the microwave along with
>the loaves in pans. It can also provide a stable temp and moist
>environment. YMMV.
>>
>>I took the pans out of the oven for about 10 minutes while it heated
>>up to 350. (I switched to the convection setting which turns on the
>>fan.) Even though the pans were warm, the dough fell, which is not
>>what I wanted.
>
>They were over proofed and collapsed when you moved them around. How
>quickly your loaves are proofed depends on myriad thing - the overall
>recipe, the temperature, the hydration, the amount of yeast, or yeast
>vs sourdough, etc..lots of variables.
>>
>>Q3: Can I leave the pans in the oven while it heats up to baking
>>temperature?
>
>Some folks start their breads in a cold oven. I do not, as I tend to
>bake lean dough (no fats, eggs, etc) breads that require high temps of
>450-500 deg F.
>
>Even so, 350 deg F is very low for bread baking.

I find that when I use the oven in convection mode, I need to reduce
the temp by 25 - 50 degrees if I'm going to keep the time the same. 42
min at 350 works for me. What do you use?


>Boron
Bob