Darin wrote:

> On Nov 16, 8:54*am, "Lum Eisenman"
> > wrote:
>> Bob,
>> Some people do not approve, but most California
>> wineries are now producing "big red fruit
>> bombs." *This style of wine is being produced
>> because it SELLS. Very ripe grapes are needed
>> to make this style of wine. *But, very ripe
>> grapes have high Brix and high pH values. *High
>> Brix can produce too much alcohol and make the
>> wines taste too hot. *I like to hold *the
>> alcohol to less than ~16% hence the water
>> addition. *In general, I do not dilute to less
>> than 26 Brix. Tannin and TA work _together_ to
>> produce astringent, rough tasting wines. These
>> big red wines contain lots of tannin so many
>> winemakers deliberately try and keep the TA
>> values low (~0.6%) to avoid overly rough wines.
>> I have found that trying to adjust pH in these
>> big red wines doesn't work very well because
>> the resulting TA values are often too high
>> (~0.65 - 0.75) and the wines become very rough
>> and astringent. *I want people to use words
>> like "big," "smooth," "soft," "round" when they
>> describe my big red wines. In general,
>> adjusting the pH produces higher TA values.
>> The wines are harder and rougher. *Consumers
>> often describe pH adjusted big red wines using
>> words like "clean," "focused," "vibrant,"
>> "sophisticated," etc. These very ripe grapes
>> are often too high in sugar and too low in TA.
>> So, the common pre fermentation must
>> adjustments are...... 1. *A few gallons of
>> plain water per ton of grapes to reduce the
>> Brix. 2. *A small tartaric acid addition to get
>> the TA up to ~6 grams per liter. 3. *Plenty of
>> yeast nutrients because high Brix levels are
>> hard to ferment to dryness. Lum
>>
>> > wrote in message
>>
>>
...
>>
>> Lum,
>>
>> What's the advantage of ameliorating the must
>> over adding tartaric acid? Why would you water
>> down the grapes? Is it the brix level? Would
>> you add water if the brix was 26 to start to
>> adjust the ph? Do you, as a rule ,leave the ph
>> and only adjust the brix if too high?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Nov 14, 8:07 pm, "Lum Eisenman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Darin" > wrote in
>> > message
>>
>>
...
>>
>> > > Today, I will take delivery of 1/2 ton of
>> > > premium Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon,
>> > > courtesy of the Caldwell vineyard and Peter
>> > > Brehm. This is by far the most expensive
>> > > barrel we've ever made, and fittingly it
>> > > promises to be the most challenging.
>>
>> > > Every variable seems to be extreme,
>> > > including 28 Brix, pH 3.80, and TA at 0.67.
>> > > My goal is to make a "big red California
>> > > fruit bomb", without excessive
>> > > intervention.
>>
>> > > Hopefully, the masters of this news group
>> > > can give me some guidance and I can thereby
>> > > avoid screwing up what has potential for an
>> > > incredible vintage.
>>
>> > > The first thing I'm going to do is confirm
>> > > the chemistry and then ameliorate with
>> > > acidulated water (7g/L) to reduce brix to
>> > > 24.5 (I'll remove as much free run as water
>> > > added).
>>
>> > > Then I'll have a look at TA and pH and see
>> > > where I stand. I'm considering raising the
>> > > TA to as high as 0.75 to get what meagre
>> > > decrease in pH might be possible. Then,
>> > > with a pH I expect to be around 3.7 - 3.8,
>> > > I'll have to start the ferment, follow with
>> > > ML, press, and then send the sulphited wine
>> > > to the cool cellar to age, precipitate KHT,
>> > > and enjoy life in its new oak barrel.
>>
>> > > Does this sound reasonable? In the past,
>> > > I've always used the rule of thumb that pH
>> > > should be less than 3.5 before fermenting.
>> > > I don't want an overly acidic wine, though
>> > > - isn't that the California approach these
>> > > days (4x4)?
>>
>> > > Thanks much in advance,
>>
>> > > Darin
>>
>> > Darin,
>> > That is the only kind of red wine I make.
>>
>> > I would add about four gallons of plain water
>> > to the 1000# of grapes. Should produce a Brix
>> > of about 26+ and a TA of 0.63 or so. I would
>> > ferment with Prise de Mousse or Premier Cuvee
>> > yeast. Punch down the cap at least four times
>> > a day. Press after 7 or 8 days on the skins.
>> > Start MLF. Add 50 mg/l of SO2 when MLF is
>> > finished. Age in a neutral barrel for ~12
>> > months. Raise SO2 to 0.5 mg/l of MOLECULAR
>> > sulfur dioxide and bottle.
>>
>> > Don't mess with these high quality grapes and
>> > don't be afraid of high pH wines
>> > (seewww.vinovation.com/ArticleWinepH.htm).
>>
>> > Good luck,
>> > Lum- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Dear all, thanks much for the interesting and
> informative
> conversation. Wow, did I ever end up with a
> different must than the one described by the
> vineyard.
>
> My lab results, which while not perfect, should
> be fairly accurate we
>
> Brix=24.1, TA=.42, pH=3.50
>
> I think my vision of a fruit bomb is dead.
> California dreaming, indeed...

Why do you think your fruit bomb vision is dead?
I, personally, would MUCH rather have the numbers
you just stated that your previous listing of the
chemistries. A couple of grams per liter of
tartaric should fix you right up.

IMHO, the least "tweaking" one has to do, the
better. If you have to add water to a grape must
then I can't understand why it would be superior
to a "Country Wine" using fruit other than grapes
and raising the must to a high level of brix with
sugar. This is just my opinion. I am sure
others will disagree.

>
> Now my challenge is to decide how far to raise
> the TA, prior to starting ferment tonight.