blake murphy wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:32:41 -0800, Dave Bugg wrote:
>
>> Gloria P wrote:
>>> islation. About damn time.
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>>
>>>
>>> Are yu saying that California DOESN'T need immigrant labor to grow
>>> and pick fruit, vegetables, and th9ings like wine grapes?
>>
>> I think the issue is more of legal migrant labor vs ILLEGAL alien
>> labor.
>>
>>> Believe it or not, many illegals do pay taxes if they work for a
>>> reputable employer and aren't paid in cash.
>>
>> In order to do so, however, illegals have to forge and falsify
>> documents, which many times involves identity theft.
>>
>>> And since they aren't
>>> legal, they can't claim refunds.
>>
>> Which is ok with me. It has been demonstrated that ILLEGAL aliens
>> (not legal migrant laborers) are a negative drain on social services.
>
> i think i would like to see a cite on that. it is widely bandied
> about, but i don't think it has been demonstrated. cheap labor
> usually provides benefits to *somebody*.

Feel free to use google. I researched the information a long while ago and
haven't kept it at my fingertips. The info is valid, but feel free to prove
it wrong. Keep in mind that much of the accusations surrounding negative
drain among migrants did not seperate legal vs illegal which is the big
mistake. I speak only of illegals. As to the benefits of cheap labor, such
benefit usually stops at the employer and his overhead expenditures.
Fortunately, that (illegals being employed) has been aggressively pursued
for the last 18 months. And in the case of the large manufacturers being
busted, long lines of Americans and legal migrants were lined up to take
those jobs.

>> As an aside, the
>> number of illegals has been drastically declining over the past 18
>> months due to the influence of state laws, increased ICE activity,
>> and public backlash. The number of LEGAL migrants has been making up
>> the deficit, and has increased in the agricultural industries.
>> American citizens are more and more willing to become employed in
>> the construction and other skilled manual trades, which has been
>> pushing out illegals by the droves and even replacing the legals. A
>> side effect of a tightened job market.
>
> i would also like to see a cite for that. how many american citizens
> do you think are out there picking lettuce?

Uh, how do you get picking lettuce out of my talking about skilled trades?
But as point of fact, all one needs to do is look at the increased number of
ag employers applying for and utilizing the H2-A program because of the loss
of the illegal market. In my area, which is the heaviest apple, pear, peach,
apricot and cherry producing area in the nation, the only migrant laborers
are those under the various temporary visa programs. 5 years ago, illegals
made up a large proportion of the labor market. ICE is now a constant
presence doing spot checks on documentation of both the laborer and the
farmer.

Illegal labor will continue to be a fact of life, but it is far less the
norm than before. And as employers continue to face jail and are heavily
fined (how the equivalent of year's worth of production?), illegal labor
will become negligible as a part of the overall work force.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan