On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:05:37 -0700, sf > wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:16:12 -0700, Gunner Asch
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:26:38 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:36:07 -0500, Fat Moe >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'd suggest we need to check
>>>>out our value systems and think about what we think is important and
>>>>what is not.
>>>
>>>OK, let's take notes on our needs and who supplies them. Let's start
>>>with shoes. We *need* shoes. Where's our shoe industry? Gone to
>>>China.
>>
>>Only for cheap low end shoes, and shoes of "art". One can still get US
>>made boots and shoes that will last a decade.
>
>But there is NO US Shoe Industry left. Only a limited amount of high
>end specialty shoes are made here in the US. End of story, you lose.
http://www.infomat.com/research/infre0000246.html
"The U.S. industry, hard-pressed to compete with low-priced imports,
probably will shrink again this year, analysts are predicting. Last
year, domestic output fell by 9 percent to less than 100 million
pairs, the lowest level on record, according to the U.S. International
Trade Commission."
>>
>>
>>> We need steel for building skyscrapers and cars, Where is
>>>that? Gone to China.
>>
>>Some does indeed. However.....There are lots and lots of US made
>>steel readily available at junk yards, salvage yards and so forth.
>>Much of it never having been touched before.
>
>Again, you lose. The real steel industry is gone for good.
Odd....seems you are again wrong.
http://cber.cba.ua.edu/rbriefs/iron&steel.html
Seems to be growing, rather than falling, or are you seeing something
that Im not?
" The Steel Industry in the United States
In 2006 about 59 companies in the United States with around 106 plants
were capable of producing approximately 112 million metric tons of raw
steel. Also, in 2006 eight companies produced pig iron at 18
integrated steel mills. About 1,100 ferrous foundries contributed to
2006 steel industry output valued at approximately $150 billion.
Primary steel-manufacturing states in 2006 included Indiana with 24
percent of production, Ohio (16 percent), and Pennsylvania and
Michigan, each with around 6 percent. Major users of U.S. steel were
the construction industry (16 percent), and transportation (mainly
automotive producers) with a 13 percent share. Warehouses and steel
service centers received 22 percent of steel shipments, much of it for
further processing by industries that manufacture products including
iron and steel pipes and tubes, bars, shapes, powder, and wire from
purchased steel.
The U.S. steel industry is seeing significant consolidation,
restructuring, and new capital investment in the 21st century. The
number of companies producing raw steel declined by 24 between 2003
and 2006 and the number of plant locations was cut in half. Integrated
steel mill locations with blast furnaces producing pig iron fell from
33 in 2003 to 18 in 2006. International Steel Group, U.S. Steel, and
Nucor are among companies that have expanded significantly by
acquisition. Technological developments have helped labor productivity
to more than triple since the early 1980s, with the average number of
man-hours per finished ton dropping from 10.1 to about three in 2004;
many plants are able to produce a ton of finished steel in less than
one man-hour. As a result, despite significant reduction in the number
of plants and modest attrition in the workforce, production capacity
rose from 103 to 112 million metric tons between 2003 and 2006.
Domestic raw steel production in 2007 totaled 56,437,000 tons through
mid-July, with average capacity utilization at 84.1 percent compared
to 90.2 percent for the same period in 2006. Imports of finished steel
mill products amounted to 14.4 million tons, up 14.3 percent on an
annualized basis from 2005, but 19.9 percent below record-high imports
of 17.8 million tons in the first half of 2006. Canada, followed by
China, South Korea, Mexico, and Brazil were the largest sources of
U.S. imports. While U.S. imports of steel mill products exceed
exports, the country is a net exporter of iron and steel scrap.
Weakness in the U.S. housing industry and constrained consumer
spending are negatively impacting domestic demand for steel. Global
Insight’s industrial production index for iron and steel products is
forecasted to dip from 116.9 in 2006 to 114.2 in 2007, but then
rebound to 118.6 in 2008 and continue to climb steadily to 126.9 in
2012.
International investment in the U.S. Steel industry is growing, with
Russia’s Evraz Group buying Oregon Steel, Brazilian steel producer
Gerdau in the process of acquiring Chaparral Steel, Swedish subsidiary
SSAB Canada purchasing IPSCO, German steel-producer ThyssenKrupp AG
beginning work on a U.S. plant, and Russia’s Severstal involved in a
joint venture in Mississippi. Industry analysts expect
intercontinental mergers and acquisitions to continue.
Tariffs are an important concern for both U.S. steel producers and
industries that utilize significant amounts of steel. Undertaking a
five-year review, the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) voted
to leave antidumping orders on steel concrete reinforcing bars from
seven countries, including China and Ukraine, in place. Countervailing
and antidumping duties on hot-rolled carbon steel imports from 11
countries are currently being reviewed."
>>
>>> Who mills American grown lumber grown on the
>>>West Coast and sold in the US? China. It's less expensive to ship
>>>our logs over there and ship the milled lumber back here to sell in
>>>the US.
>>
>>True indeed.
>>
>>However..one can set up ones own mill in ones back yard or rented
>>property and turn out just as much as you wish.
>
>Once again, it's a specialty industry... mass production is gone, you
>lose.
>
>Three times, you're out.
http://www.fas.usda.gov/ffpd/Wood_Pr.../USexports.pdf
You live where again? Obviously not in the same space and plane as
the rest of the planet. When you finally realize you are living on
Earth, Sol III, take a good look around and let us know if things have
changed any for your outlook.
Gunner
"Human nature is bad. Good is a human product*
A warped piece of wood must be steamed and forced
before it is made straight; a metal blade must be put to the whetstone
before it becomes sharp. Since the nature of people is bad, to become corrected
they must be taught by teachers and to be orderly they must acquire ritual
and moral principles."
—Sun Tzu
*