Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>
> Pete C. said:
> > Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> >>
> >> Ed Pawlowski said:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Putting the meat in an insulated container will keep it in the safe
> >>> zone for a long time. That means above 140. At 198, anything
> >>> should be dead, but I guess it can become contaminated from
> >>> handling also.
> >>
> >> Unless it's been sterilized and continuously handled using sterile
> >> technique end environment, that is true. Bacteria are everywhere,
> >> and particularly prevalent in the kitchen.
> >>
> >> I saw a program debunking the "5 second rule" where foods were
> >> dropped on various surfaces for 5 seconds, then cultured to find out
> >> what bacteria they had picked up. This included many surfaces
> >> including a kitchen floor and even a toilet seat. All of them were
> >> shown to be contaminated in such a way as to be unfit for
> >> consumption. Of all the surfaces tested, the kitchen floor sample
> >> grew the most bacteria. The bottom line was that everywhere you go,
> >> there are bacterial contaminants.
> >>
> >> MBKC
> >
> > I've seen several programs claiming to test the "5 second rule" and
> > every single one failed miserably in their testing methodology,
> > invalidating their results. In every case they did the potential
> > contamination incident and then incubated the sample which invalidates
> > the test since the "5 second rule" is about fitness to eat or cook
> > after the drop, not after the drop and a subsequent 24 hour
> > incubation at "danger zone" temperatures. Yes when you drop stuff it
> > picks up bacterial contamination, however that contamination is not
> > at a level that is at all dangerous for immediate consumption or
> > immediate cooking and then consumption.
>
> I don't buy that last statement at all. I think you're saying that it is
> always safe to eat food that has been dropped on pretty much any surface.

No, I'm pretty sure that implied in the "5 second rule" is "non-grossly
contaminated surfaces", i.e. a normal kitchen floor or similar, not in a
pile of dog poop in the back yard.

> Besides it's subjective... how long did the food get held after the drop
> before eating...

Certainly not 24 hours in a friggin' incubator. It is presumed that the
"5 second rule" applies to food that will be immediately consumed i.e.
less than 1 minute, or cooked i.e. a steak dropped on the way to the
grill.

> did you serve anyone with an impaired immune system... did
> you step in dog sh*t in your yard yesterday and clean your shoes, but
> inadvertently track traces of it to your kitchen floor today? I just can't
> agree with that sort of sweeping generality.

You're the one coming up with the wide ranging tangents, far outside the
scope of the "5 second rule".

>
> The reason they incubated was to specify more easily everything which had
> contaminated the food. By the amount of growth of each type of bacteria they
> were able to figure how much of each of the the various bacteria had
> contaminated the food. The more bacteria there was to start with, the more
> would grow in the culture.

The incubated so they could visually see bacteria colonies - colonies
that did not exist on the food in the time period of the "5 second
rule". Bacteria counts in the time of the "5 second rule" would be in
tens, not millions, and tens are perfectly safe to eat and they will not
multiply in your stomach acid. It's even less of an issue with the steak
dropped on the way to the grill since those tens of bacteria will be
incinerated in short order.

>
> So all the culturing does is make more of whatever contaminants came off the
> surface. That's not invalid in this context, because whatever grew in the
> culture came from the drop spot, therefore some of the same goes in your
> body if you are crazy enough to eat it. They weren't even close to implying
> that you would actually be eating the same volumes in the culture. The point
> was that it proved the presence of harmful bacteria, and that there was more
> of it to be found on your kitchen floor than your toilet seat or your back
> yard.

Yes, but what they proved has virtually nothing to do with the "5 second
rule", and certainly does not invalidate the "5 second rule". If you
drop that cookie on the kitchen floor, pick it up and eat in in the "5
second rule" time frame, I can pretty much guarantee you will not get
sick. If you pick it up, incubate it in the danger zone for 24 hours and
then eat it, you may get sick. The "5 second rule" is valid.

>
> It's not scientific on the level of some clinical trial of a new drug, but
> it was sufficient to convince me that the kitchen floor is one of the most
> contaminated surfaces in the home. I think you'd have to be insane to eat
> anything off the kitchen floor after seeing that.

I think you'd have to be insane to think that the food item will pick up
appreciably more bacteria in that 5 second drop, than it will pickup
being placed on the plate you just took out of the cabinet. If you do
all your cooking with disposable gloves, have a bucket of sanitizer and
use it constantly and put food on plates just out of the heated
sanitizer cycle, you might get less bacteria, otherwise, the "5 second
rule" is valid and safe.