> "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
>>Frawley said:
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:36:29 -0600, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nick Cramer said:
>>>>> Is this just a marketing ploy by Kikkoman? Seems to me that you get
>>>>> umami when you have the right balance of sweet, sour, salty, bitter
>>>>> (and spicy/hot) for the dish you're preparing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spicy/hot. Maybe that should be the fifth flavor. Wide range of
>>>>> intensities, durations and location of effects (different parts of
>>>>> the mouth, tongue, throat), sweat (face, brow, top or back of
>>>>> head, back).
>>>>>
>>>>> Please educate me. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> I agree on spicy as a fifth flavor.
>>>>
>>>> As far as umami, given the various foods purported to have that
>>>> flavor, it's not making a lot of sense, unless it's just another
>>>> word for savory.
>>>>
>>>> One of the cooking competition shows, either Top Chef or Next Iron
>>>> Chef, I don't recall, had a competition where the contestants had
>>>> to incorporate umami, and they had some renowned asian chef who I
>>>> had never heard of (that's doesn't mean much) judging their
>>>> entries, including whether or not and how well they had made use of
>>>> "umami."
>>>>
>>>> I often tell people, especially when the conversation is about
>>>> barbecue or asian cooking, and especially pertaining to sauces,
>>>> that I am a savory guy, not a sweet guy. Maybe that means I'm an
>>>> umami guy. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> MartyB in KC
>>>
>>> i'll repeat myself and point you to *wikipedia*:
>>>
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami>
>>>
>>> so yeah, savory, but there seem to be distinct receptors on the
>>> tongue for it, just like salty, sweet, bitter and sour.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Right, it's taste receptor issue, not a 5th "flavor". It's a matter
>> of biology, not opinion. We don't get to vote.
>
>That's all nice, but:
>
>Wikipedia is not a scientifically accredited source.
>
>It may or may not be a matter of biology, but what we call it, whatever it
>is, can vary, and the term umami seems to me to be talking about the exact
>same taste sensation which I call savory.
>
>I'm not aware of research which supports this additional set of taste
>receptors which are the source for defining a fifth element of flavor. I'd
>be interested to read it though if it exists.
>
>The term umami is the beneficiary of a big time consumer marketing push by
>Kikkoman. Whether it's popularity in the west is just a matter of
>terminology or if it's something we stupid westerners have suddenly just
>discovered on our taste buds after all these millenia is not clear to me,
>but I rather doubt it has utterly escaped definition or awareness up to now,
>and I remain dubious that it's genuinely a biological fact that there exists
>some other set of taste receptors we idiot westerners have failed to grasp.
>
>For all I know, savory and umami are synonymous, one an eastern language
>term, the other western.
>
>One thing for sure is that I'll need to see more than Wiki articles,
>Kikkoman ads, and TV reality cooking competition shows that ride the
>popularity of the term before I'll consider the matter of a fifth flavor
>element settled in my mind. I've always thought of the concept of savory
>flavor as a combination of the four elements, and if it's not, in spite of
>having a relatively refined palate, I simply do not taste some particular
>unique element which exists specifically and uniquely in the foods where it
>is claimed to be present, so that it might be recognizable in the same way
>sour or sweet is recognizable in various degrees.
>
>MartyB in KC

Hard to tell who you're arguing with or against here, but that's a
whale of an essay!