On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:54:10 -0600, Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> Frawley said:
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:36:29 -0600, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nick Cramer said:
>>>>> Is this just a marketing ploy by Kikkoman? Seems to me that you get
>>>>> umami when you have the right balance of sweet, sour, salty, bitter
>>>>> (and spicy/hot) for the dish you're preparing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spicy/hot. Maybe that should be the fifth flavor. Wide range of
>>>>> intensities, durations and location of effects (different parts of
>>>>> the mouth, tongue, throat), sweat (face, brow, top or back of
>>>>> head, back).
>>>>>
>>>>> Please educate me. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> I agree on spicy as a fifth flavor.
>>>>
>>>> As far as umami, given the various foods purported to have that
>>>> flavor, it's not making a lot of sense, unless it's just another
>>>> word for savory.
>>>>
>>>> One of the cooking competition shows, either Top Chef or Next Iron
>>>> Chef, I don't recall, had a competition where the contestants had
>>>> to incorporate umami, and they had some renowned asian chef who I
>>>> had never heard of (that's doesn't mean much) judging their
>>>> entries, including whether or not and how well they had made use of
>>>> "umami."
>>>>
>>>> I often tell people, especially when the conversation is about
>>>> barbecue or asian cooking, and especially pertaining to sauces,
>>>> that I am a savory guy, not a sweet guy. Maybe that means I'm an
>>>> umami guy. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> MartyB in KC
>>>
>>> i'll repeat myself and point you to *wikipedia*:
>>>
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami>
>>>
>>> so yeah, savory, but there seem to be distinct receptors on the
>>> tongue for it, just like salty, sweet, bitter and sour.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Right, it's taste receptor issue, not a 5th "flavor". It's a matter
>> of biology, not opinion. We don't get to vote.
>
> That's all nice, but:
>
> Wikipedia is not a scientifically accredited source.

i understand that argument, but in this case there are copious
scientifically accredited references:

Notes

1. ^ Sanseido Japanese-English Dictionary published by Sanseido, Co.
Ltd., Tokyo, Japan
2. ^ a b Chandrashekar J, Hoon MA, Ryba NJ, Zuker CS (November 2006).
"The receptors and cells for mammalian taste". Nature 444 (7117): 288¡V94.
doi:10.1038/nature05401. PMID 17108952.
3. ^ a b Ikeda K (November 2002). "New seasonings". Chem. Senses 27 (9):
847¡V9. doi:10.1093/chemse/27.9.847. PMID 12438213.
http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...&pmid=12438213.
(partial translation of Ikeda, Kikunae (1909). "New Seasonings[japan.]".
Journal of the Chemical Society of Tokyo 30: 820¡V836. )
4. ^ Yasuo T, Kusuhara Y, Yasumatsu K, Ninomiya Y (October 2008).
"Multiple receptor systems for glutamate detection in the taste organ"
([dead link]). Biol. PharBull. 31 (10): 1833¡V7.
# doi:10.1248/bpb.31.1833. PMID 18827337.
http://joi.jlc.jst.go.jp/JST.JSTAGE/...33?from=PubMed.
# ^ Moskin, Julia (5 March 2008). "Yes, MSG, the Secret Behind the Savor".
New York Times. http://nytimes.com/2008/03/05/dining/05glute.html.
Retrieved 9 August 2008.
# ^ Nelson G, Chandrashekar J, Hoon MA, et al. (2002). "An amino-acid taste
receptor". Nature 416 (6877): 199¡V202. doi:10.1038/nature726. PMID
11894099.
# ^ Roper, SD (2007 August). "Signal transduction and information
processing in mammalian taste buds". Pflugers Arch 454 (5): 759¡V76.
doi:10.1007/s00424-007-0247-x. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17468883.
# ^ Daniels, S (February 18, 2008). "Scientists develop new umami taste
enhancers". FoodNavigator.com-Europe.
http://foodnfoodnavigator.com/news/n...-umami-msg-gmp.
# ^ Rolls, ET (2000 April). "The representation of umami taste in the taste
cortex". J Nutr 130 (4S Suppl): 960S¡V5S.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10736361.

at least some of which appear to be refereed journals.

>
> It may or may not be a matter of biology, but what we call it, whatever it
> is, can vary, and the term umami seems to me to be talking about the exact
> same taste sensation which I call savory.
>
> I'm not aware of research which supports this additional set of taste
> receptors which are the source for defining a fifth element of flavor. I'd
> be interested to read it though if it exists.

see above.

>
> The term umami is the beneficiary of a big time consumer marketing push by
> Kikkoman. Whether it's popularity in the west is just a matter of
> terminology or if it's something we stupid westerners have suddenly just
> discovered on our taste buds after all these millenia is not clear to me,
> but I rather doubt it has utterly escaped definition or awareness up to now,
> and I remain dubious that it's genuinely a biological fact that there exists
> some other set of taste receptors we idiot westerners have failed to grasp.

maybe it's been hyped by kikkoman and others, but that doesn't mean it's
not true.

your pal,
blake