In article
>,
michael > wrote:

> On 12 Feb, 03:02, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > I won't argue with you about your experiences. I'm just saying that
> > around 100ppm free SO2 (FSO2), some say less, the wine will give you a
> > headache, and if you are an asthmatic, shove you into an attack.
> >
> > In winemaking
> > In low concentrations SO2 is mostly undetectable in wine, but at over
> > 50ppm, SO2 becomes evident in the nose and taste of
> > wine.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_dioxide
> >
> > http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/...should-i-add-c...
> > en-tablets-each-time-i-rack-my-wine-and-how-do-i-measure-the-level-of-sul
> > fite-in-my-wine
> >
> > Additionally, SO2 will bleach your wine, striping out the purple hues in
> > reds, and make whites look like water. This is one of the reasons for
> > using as little as is needed.
> >
> > Not all wine oxidation is mediated by acetobacter, direct molecular
> > oxidation can happen as well. It seems from your statement, that you
> > think you could leave wine in an open pot, and it would be perfectly
> > fine, as long as it had FSO2. This is not the case. You will get
> > spoilage from direct oxidation and aerobic organisms.
> >
> > If you can't taste the difference, there is no need to change your
> > habits.
> >
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Wildbill,
> >
> > > I've never experienced oxidation from racking. As long as there is
> > > free SO2 the wine will not oxidize. I add 50ppm each rack and the wine
> > > is very drinkable. In fact, it's better than any commercial stuff made
> > > from the same quality grapes I use. If Micheal added 30ppm each rack
> > > it would take 10 racks to get to 300ppm. That's assuming no oxygen is
> > > introduced during racking. IOW, it won't even be close to 300ppm and
> > > probably more close to 30ppm at the end.
> >
> > > On Feb 11, 10:44*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> >
> > > > *michael > wrote:
> > > > > On 9 Feb, 11:52, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> > > > > > michael wrote:
> > > > > > > On 9 Feb, 02:17, "Paul E. Lehmann" >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> Wildbilly wrote:
> > > > > > >> > In article
> > > > > > >> > .
> > > > > > >> > com>
> > > > > > >> > ,
> > > > > > >> > michael > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> >> I have been drinking a 2006 Regent( a European hybrid
> > > > > > >> >> developed
> > > > > > >> >> for
> > > > > > >> >> early ripening in cool climates ) red wine recently and have
> > > > > > >> >> been
> > > > > > >> >> amazed at the difference temperature makes.My mini vineyard
> > > > > > >> >> is in
> > > > > > >> >> Herefordshire,in southern England,and whereas I have been
> > > > > > >> >> making
> > > > > > >> >> some
> > > > > > >> >> excellent dry white wines(as judged by others),I am new to
> > > > > > >> >> red
> > > > > > >> >> wine
> > > > > > >> >> making.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> The year 2006 was very good in England,with all grapes
> > > > > > >> >> ripening
> > > > > > >> >> very
> > > > > > >> >> well,and earlier than usual.I fermented the grapes on the
> > > > > > >> >> skins
> > > > > > >> >> and
> > > > > > >> >> with the grapes natural yeast,and achieved full fermentation
> > > > > > >> >> after 2
> > > > > > >> >> to 3 weeks-the grapes were pressed after 6 days
> > > > > > >> >> maceration.The
> > > > > > >> >> wine
> > > > > > >> >> was matured in gallon glass demijohns for three years,and
> > > > > > >> >> bottled
> > > > > > >> >> recently.I tried the wine in my cool pantry (it has been
> > > > > > >> >> pretty
> > > > > > >> >> cold
> > > > > > >> >> in England this winter),and was a little disappointed.It had
> > > > > > >> >> a
> > > > > > >> >> very
> > > > > > >> >> nice fruity nose but seemed a little tannic.We compared it
> > > > > > >> >> with a
> > > > > > >> >> commercial Australian Cabernet ,and was not convinced that
> > > > > > >> >> mine
> > > > > > >> >> was
> > > > > > >> >> that much inferior.We decided to serve it to our friends at a
> > > > > > >> >> dinner
> > > > > > >> >> party,as English red wine made from English grapes is quite
> > > > > > >> >> unusual.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> The surprise came when I warmed up the wine to about 65For
> > > > > > >> >> room
> > > > > > >> >> temperature.The wine had lost its tannic nature and was very
> > > > > > >> >> good,with
> > > > > > >> >> absolutely no comparison to drinking the wine at 50F.I am
> > > > > > >> >> well
> > > > > > >> >> aware
> > > > > > >> >> that red wine should be drunk at room temperature,but had no
> > > > > > >> >> idea
> > > > > > >> >> that
> > > > > > >> >> its character should change so much;it makes it difficult to
> > > > > > >> >> assess
> > > > > > >> >> wine being stored in a cooler place.
> > > > > > >> >> I would welcome comments
> > > > > > >> >> Michael
> >
> > > > > > >> > Good reds and whites: 14C - 16C
> > > > > > >> > Young fruity reds, rosés, and dry whites: 11C - 12C
> > > > > > >> > Sparkling: 7C - 8C
> > > > > > >> > Dessert Wines: 6C
> >
> > > > > > >> > Chilling a wine, reduces your ability to taste it. Too warm
> > > > > > >> > and it
> > > > > > >> > will
> > > > > > >> > seem flat. Then again, wines are like steaks. No one can tell
> > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > >> > right way to serve it (well done, rare), or what is the best
> > > > > > >> > temp
> > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > >> > serve wines, for you. Learn the rules, and then you can break
> > > > > > >> > them
> > > > > > >> > ;O)
> >
> > > > > > >> I like your quote at the bottom
> >
> > > > > > >> Paul- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the comments.
> > > > > > > I think that my problem with this red wine is that I have got an
> > > > > > > excess of tannin.I thought that it would become more mellow after
> > > > > > > three years in a glass demijohn,but although it has coated the
> > > > > > > glass
> > > > > > > with a thin red deposit,there has been no deposit in the bottom
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > demijohn.The grapes were very ripe when picked (Brix 18.5 which
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > the best we get in our cool climate),but possibly a little low on
> > > > > > > acid.The wine has a good fruity nose,its colour is deep red and
> > > > > > > clear,but that is about the best one can say-the taste gets
> > > > > > > better on
> > > > > > > the second or third glass,but presumably all wines do due to the
> > > > > > > alcohol kicking in.It is somewhat better than a supermarket wine
> > > > > > > at 8
> > > > > > > dollars a bottle,my friends at a recent dinner party liked it and
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > daughter gives it 9/10.However,I feel that I need more
> > > > > > > understanding
> > > > > > > of what I perceive to be wrong,in order to improve it.
> > > > > > > Michael
> >
> > > > > > Try this:
> >
> > > > > > Next time you open a bottle, pour out a glass and drink it and save
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > rest
> > > > > > in the opened bottle until the next day. *Test to see how the
> > > > > > remaining
> > > > > > wine in the bottle taste the next day - or two days. *If it is a
> > > > > > lot
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > taste to you, then your wine will improve with age - it just needs
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > time.
> >
> > > > > > Have you checked out the site:
> >
> > > > > >http://www.winepress.us/
> >
> > > > > > There are a LOT of us there and it is very active with a lot of
> > > > > > good
> > > > > > topics
> > > > > > and opinions. *I am known as PEL on the site. *You can also post
> > > > > > pictures
> > > > > > which sometimes help a lot in the conversations. *They have been
> > > > > > having
> > > > > > problems with their server but it has been fairly stable recently.
> >
> > > > > > Paul- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > > > Yes,it does get a little better when left in an opened bottle for a
> > > > > day or so.The wine is already 3 years old,but perhaps it is not
> > > > > maturing very fast in glass.What surprises me is that I do not get a
> > > > > tannin deposit on the bottom of the glass demijohn.That is why I have
> > > > > not deemed it necessary to rack it-all I see is a deposit on the
> > > > > inside of the glass.Perhaps red wine does need more air (which it
> > > > > would get if maturing in oak),so perhaps I will rack some more to
> > > > > introduce some oxygen to help with maturation.I assume that I add a
> > > > > small amount of sulphite(30ppm) on each racking,though I thought that
> > > > > red wine (unlike white wine)does not need it due to its tannin .
> > > > > Thanks again
> > > > > Michael
> >
> > > > All wines need SO2, unless you're making vinegar (little is needed
> > > > below
> > > > pH3). 30ppm is about the max. free SO2 that you want. If you add 30ppm
> > > > to each racking, the wine will be undrinkable. Polymerization of
> > > > tannins
> > > > is a slow oxidation. Exposure to the air is will lead to rapid
> > > > oxidation
> > > > ---> acetic acid ---> acetaldehyde ---> big waste of time, effort,
> > > > money.
> > > > --
> > > > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > > > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
> >
> > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...srael_arrestin...
> > > > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
> >
> > --
> > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rrestin...http
> > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for all of your comments.
> My general summary of what I have learned is that maturation in glass
> is a slower process than in oak where the barrels let air in slowly.
The oxygen comes in with the topping wines. The water and ethanol
evaporate out of the barrel via the veins (phloem and xylem) in the wood.

> My
> observation that the taste is a little better from a half-filled
> bottle the day after opening does suggest that some oxidation at this
> stage does help the flavour.
The procedure is called "breathing" the wine. Remove half a glass of red
wine from the bottle to (thus increasing the surface area of the wine)
and let the bottle stand, without the cork, for 2 to 4 hours. There may
be an interaction between the air and the wine, and there is a
de-gassing of compounds that mask the flavor and smell of the wine.
Most dry table wines will retain their quality for about 12 hours, and
then start to deteriorate.
> This particular vintage was rather low on
> acid,and I am also wondering if this could effect the overlying tannic
> taste.
> I do rack my red wine once after fermentation (say in November),when I
> add 30ppm, and then once again after about another six months,adding a
> further 30ppm.I then leave it for a couple of years or so,though do
> sample a tiny amount from time to time,which does let in a small
> amount of air.Perhaps I should rack off one more time,but I am nervous
> about the addition of too much sulphite,since my wife does suffer from
> headaches after drinking a couple of glasses of commercial red
> wine,but never with my own reds.
> Michael
> P.S.I did an experiment recently to see whether one needs to stir in
> added sulphite or just add it and let it disperse.This was for cider
> making,but it is very relevant here.
> I took two water filled 5 litre glass demijohns,and added a teaspoon
> (5ml) of water soluble Watermans ink (yes,I still have some and use it
> for writing now and again).This is the ratio of volumes that I use
> when adding sulphite.Due to gravity of the fall (a couple of
> centimetres),the ink gained velocity and formed a jet which sank to
> the bottom.A few stirs on one of the demijohns gave a completely
> uniform colour. In the unstirred demijohn,however, the colouring
> reached a uniform colour in the lower third of the vessel only ,and
> clear water still in the upper two thirds even after a few hours.Now a
> couple of months after doing the experiment,the unstirred demijohn is
> showing very very slow dispersion,with the blue colouring only just up
> to half way.My feeling is that it would take at least a year(or
> two)before the colouring became uniform.
> Of course,if there was a slow fermentation going on the dispersion
> would speed up,but this experiment has proved to me that it is very
> necessary to stir in added sulphite for it to be effective in the
> total volume.This result surprised me so much that I went around this
> years stored wine and gave them each a stir!
> My lack of stirring in previous years winemaking may have some bearing
> on my problems with the 2006 Regent wine above,although there have
> been no suggestion of vinegary taints ever.

Good experiment :O)
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines