On Mar 10, 2:08*pm, Sam > wrote:
> Simon wrote:
>
> >>> It's not doing anything because you're not giving it time to ferment.
>
> >>> Mix the (whole-grain) flour with water and let it sit, looseley covered,
> >>> at room temperature for a week. *LEAVE IT ALONE during that time.
>
> >> Sure!http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html
>
> >> S
>
> > But given that I've been doing the 24 hour thing for 2 weeks now
> > without success perhaps it's time to try something different and just
> > leave it for a week. *I checked it this morning (about 12 hours after
> > feeding) and it had a thin layer of hooch on top and no signs of any
> > bubbles.
>
> > Simon
>
> Well, something's off with your attempts.
>
> The method I described/used does constant feedings without reducing. *
> Reason *for doing it because there was/is so much *<censored> *going on
> with *SD starter growing.
> My opinion on the two week thing goes in the same category. It may work
> but is not necessary. Pineapple/grape/potato/moon phase/chanting can
> work as well and be claimed as the holey grail of sourdough growing/book
> writing since fermentation just happens naturally.
>
> What you do is not too much off from that (constant feeding) method.
>
> Main sources for failure can be:
>
> a - quick oversouring with no activity
> b - lack of organisms/growing for other reasons
>
> Remedy for a:
>
> If you can't test for sourness (don't dare to taste it when you don't
> have a pH meter or testing strips at hand - most likely), split the
> amount, continue with the regular method with one part and use a small
> amount, something like 1/10 - or a teaspoon to start a strongly reduced
> mixture and continue.
>
> Remedy for b:
>
> You have not (or I missed it) mentioned what kind of flour you use, what
> is your water source and what is your approximate temperature you are
> running this. The reason the behavior you are seeing can be found there.
>
> Maybe you can elaborate on that.
>
> If you have hooch, alcoholic smell there is fermentation, just not the
> right ratio of organisms. I think that's a good sign.
>
> Sam

Hi Sam

You're completely right of course - not all waters and flours are the
same and I really should have included these details!

I'm using ordinary tap water because the tap water here in Edinburgh
is nice and soft. I take it from the main riser in the house so it
doesn't pass through any of the old lead pipes.

The flour I'm using in Marriage's organic - I started off with
wholemeal for the first 4-5 feedings and then switched to the white
stoneground stuff.

I'm afraid that I don't konw the temperature in the house, but I would
guess that it varies between about about 13 and 18 degrees centrigrade
over 24 hours. Having said that, spring is here now and this part of
the world is warming up remarkably quickly - I went for an early
morning bike ride today and didn't see any ice patches on the road
(althought there is still snow in the fields). The starter lives in a
cupboard in the core of the house in order to maximise warmth and
minimise temperature variations, so I would guess that it sits at a
pretty constant 15-17 degrees or so, maybe a little warmer.

Does that help?

Simon