sf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:40:24 -0400, George >
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:55:33 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Good food - Check
> > > Clean streets - Fail
> > > Clean buildings - Fail
> > > Reliable infrastructure - Fail
> > > Elbow room - Fail
> > > Sane traffic - Fail
> > > Reasonable parking - Fail
> > > Friendly people - Fail
> > > Low crime - Fail
> > > Reasonable COL - Fail
> > > CHL - Fail
> > > etc.
> >
> > Sounds like you haven't been there for quite some time. After one
> > liberal administration after another worried more about hurting the
> > feelings of the riff-raff folks who were raising a family, had a job etc
> > had enough and hired Giuliani and within a few years there was a major
> > difference.
>
> I agree. NYC has been fine for the last 20+ years. The only people
> who don't like NYC are those who expect it to mimic their small home
> town. Stay away from large cities if you can't take big city life.
> You can't act like a hick and not expect to be eaten alive there. You
> *will* be taken advantage of or ignored, whichever vibe you put out.

I've definitely been to NYC a number of times in the last 20 years, and
it has *not* been fine. It's not a function of expecting a big city to
be like my small home town, it's a function of expecting a city to not
be a dung heap, something NYC fails miserably at, while big cities like
Montreal and Toronto excel at.

>
> Reasonable parking in NYC? HAHAHA! He should be glad he found *any*
> parking. Whatta rube. The cost of living in NYC has always been
> high. Did he think it was going to change just because he was in
> town?

Reasonable parking makes a city workable for all people, not just those
who fit the city dweller mentality. If you can live your life with
public transit not transporting more than a few shopping bags yourself,
and relying on others to transport larger things for you that is great,
but realize that those who transport the larger stuff for you need to be
able to park their vehicles. Again, large cities such as Montreal and
Toronto get this right. The last time I was in Montreal, I was able to
park my large truck which takes up a space and a half in the middle of
downtown Montreal for $5 CDN for the day and hop on their spotless
subway a block away for $2 CDN.

>
> Don't take small town expectations to the big city and make it the big
> city's fault for not being just like home. If you want it to be like
> home, stay home. Surely no one goes to Rome, London or Paris and
> expects them to be just like home too.

Nope, I don't expect small town, I do expect clean, orderly and
civilized, and big cities like Montreal and Toronto meet that
expectation, while NYC falls flat.

> Think NYC is dirty? Cairo is
> like visiting the city dump. Adjust your attitude before leaving home
> or you'll waste your money on travel.

I've been to Cairo, and it does indeed make NYC look good, however NYC
should not be judged against third world standards, it should be judged
against first world standards and by those standards it fails.

>
> NYC is exhilarating and has a personality of it's own. People stand 6
> feet off the curb waiting for the light to turn green. Heck, they
> don't wait... they jay walk through traffic even I think is more like
> the freeway during rush hour.

Yes, and this again mirrors the behavior in a third world city like
Cairo, not a first world one like Montreal.

> As far as rude, no they are not. The
> sidewalks are crowded and you bump or get bumped. Hang on to your
> wallet, because pick pockets bump too.

Yes, they are indeed rude. I've been to NYC enough times and to Montreal
enough times to fully confirm this.

>
> We can drive in Manhattan but not many out of towners are able to, so
> taking a cab or public transportation is the best way to get around.
> If you take a cab, know how to get where you're going and be prepared
> to get out and walk if traffic is slower than your walking pace. The
> cabbie won't cry if you do.

I've driven in Manhattan a number of times and while exhilarating, it is
not enjoyable. Most of the times I went to NYC I took the bus and let
the bus driver deal with the ass holes on the road who can't follow
traffic laws.

>
> One of my favorite memories of NYC is being in a cab at 1 o'clock in
> the morning (contrary to public perception, most NYC is fairly
> inactive in the early morning hours).

Yes, indeed it is, in large part due to safety issues. Little activity
beyond garbage trucks and futile street sweeping at those hours.

> Anyway, we were at a four way
> stop and the only other vehicle on the road was a cab to our left.
> There we were side by side with the cab and all of a sudden he starts
> honking - at nothing. We just burst out laughing. It's not personal.
> They honk just to hear the sound of their horns, no other reason.

Just what I want to hear when trying to sleep at 1 am, garbage trucks,
street sweepers, loony cabbies honking horns, and the ever present
mentally ill homeless person shouting incoherently. I'll take my quiet
country setting with some chirping crickets and peeping frogs any day.

PS: I reference Montreal a lot since it used to be a regular vacation
destination for me when I lived in CT (5.5hr drive from CT) and it's
clearly a model of what a civilized city should be like.