On Mar 11, 4:21*pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
> "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Mar 10, 9:13 pm, "Steve Peek" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "jim c" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On Feb 28, 5:22 pm, "Barb" > wrote:
>
> > > "Tom Kunich" > wrote in message
>
> > om...> When I finished
> > > the initial fermentation and then the second at which the
> > > > sedement is mostly left behind and put the wine into the second
> > > > carboy,
> > > > I
> > > > tried tasting the wine and it certainly didn't taste like anything I'd
> > > > like to drink. Does this all improve/change with the aging?
>
> > > Yes, what you're tasting now bears no resemblance to what you get at the
> > > end, it's still, basically, half-fermented fruit juice. You still have
> > > some
> > > fermenting to go, the wine has to then be cleared and settled, and
> > > you'll
> > > be
> > > surprised, even amazed, at the difference!
>
> > > Stick with it!
>
> > > If you're using one of the kits, you will be able to drink it straight
> > > away
> > > after fining has finished a few weeks hence, although leaving it to
> > > stand
> > > does make a difference - I don't wait that long, I find the result is
> > > just
> > > as good as basic supermarket drinking plonk, sometimes better.....
>
> > > Barb
>
> > I would add - despite a lot of opinion here - that once the
> > fermentation has stopped for certain, you're best off fining it
> > straight away. Racking it when it is completely clear, degassing it
> > then bottling as soon as possible... My experience has been that
> > letting fruit wines settle naturally can lead to off flavours and
> > little improvement compared to bottle aging...
>
> > Just my opinion,
>
> > Jim
>
> > Well I'd certainly disagree. Fining agents can strip flavor and color.
> > It's
> > far better to let nature take her course and be patient.
> > Steve
>
> Thanks Ben.
>
> That is exactly what I was trying to say. *As I say, the majority on
> this forum would disagree with me as Steve has. * Although winemaking
> shop owners in the UK seem to be more or less in agreement with me. *I
> can't explain the reason for the difference and I most definitely
> wouldn't say the members here are wrong, *they have many years more
> experience than I do on the whole... *Although I think I may have some
> evidence against it being 'far better to let nature take her course'
> when sometimes she deigns to make white fruit wines take so long to
> settle naturally that the suspended particles steer the flavour off-
> course...
>
> It is certain that fining agents CAN strip flavours and colours. *I
> would say it is also true that particles left in the wine too long can
> impart off flavours and contribute no positive attributes to it. *My
> belief and personal experience is that for white (non-grape) fruit
> wines, better results are achieved on average by fining than not (for
> wines which do not settle naturally within a few weeks of fermentation
> ending. *I recognise my opinion is contentious outside of the UK and
> even among some artisan wine makers here. *I also recognise that my
> belief does not extend beyond white non-grape wines.
>
> Perhaps the reason is that these wines have particularly fragile and
> carefully constructed flavours and balances which have to be gauged
> just right in order to produce a pleasant and drinkable result. *As a
> result, perhaps, I'd rather lose an iota of flavour than gain an
> undesirable off-taste of any magnitude. * To my tastes, QuikKleer
> brand (gelatin/kieselsol similar I suspect to Sparkaloid in the
> states?) seems to leave the desired flavour intact as far as I can
> tell, while removing the yeast and remainders which cause off
> flavours.
>
> I submit this as my experience and opinion with my cap respectfully
> tipped at that of others here.
>
> Jim
>
> I knew when I made the statement that I should have qualified it. I actually
> think we agree more than disagree. I am much more a mazer than a vintner. My
> whites are mostly from delicate varietal honey and the object is to capture
> same in both nose and taste. Natural clearing is much preferred in this
> circumstance.
>
> In fruit wines I can definitely see circumstances requiring fining. Apples,
> pears, peaches and plums will drop sediment for a year of longer. Some, if
> not treated with enough pectic enzyme, will not clear without fining. Yeast
> autolysis and rotting fruit do not add to the drinking pleasure. I must
> learn to speak in more general terms.
>
> Apologies & cheers,
> Steve

A useful clarification, thanks Steve! I feel sure there is merit in
such cases to clear somewhat sooner rather than later and I'm glad I
am not completely alone in that assertion.

Jim