On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
snip
I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>
snip


I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
Janet US