On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:08:01 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:52:26 -0600, Janet Bostwick
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:41:23 -0500, Chemiker
> wrote:
>>snip
>> I found tha both the KA and the Zoji overbeat/knead the
>>>dough, which is OK if you want a fine crumb. I prefer the Ciabatta
>>>type open crumb, which IMHO must be done by hand.
>>>
>>snip
>>
>>
>>I've never found that mechanical kneading causes small crumb. It's
>>the handling after first rise that determines the crumb.
>>Janet US
>
>Looks like your using the direct(1 step) method. I make a poolish, as
>I said, the day before and let it mature in the fridge overnight. When
>I add it to the main mix of dough, I do not knead the two at all, but
>merely fold one into the other by hand and allow to rise. Then, rather
>than kneading and breaking up the formed bubbles, I gently stretch the
>dough, fold it over itself in layers and lay it (covered) on a loaf
>form covered with parchment paper. This way nickel- and quarter-sized
>holes are easy to obtain. For details, see:
>
>The Breadmaker's Apprentice, p 135 et seq. entitled "Ciabatta"
>
>The same technique works well for Baguettes and the like, and the
>poolish method develops a light sour-dough like flavor that is
>excellent. No direct method I know of (except for adding vinegar to
>the dough) develops the flavor like the 2-step method, starting with a
>mature poolish or biga. Hope this explains it.
>
>Alex

That technique may produce the open crumb you seek - along with the
hydration of the dough, of course, but using a mixer will not screw up
the crumb.

One of the most "holey" breads I know - Carol Field's cocodrillo,
spends 17 minute in the mixer and you could drive a truck through the
crumb openings in the finished loaf.

And IMHO, listening to advice from Janet Bostwick about bread baking
will do you even better than reading Reinhart...and that is "The Bread
Baker's Apprentice," by the way.

Boron