"Steve Small" > wrote in message
...
> In the recent thread "Clearing Red Wine" Tom S. made the comments
>
> >My experience with bentonite in red wine is that even in small doses
(~1-2
> >lb/1000 gal) it can dramatically improve the nose and bring the fruit to
> the
> >fore on the palate.
> >.....
> >Fining is best done on a wine that is nearly or already clear. The idea
is
> >to improve the _flavor_ - not to achieve clarity, although improved
clarity
> >will frequently be a side benefit.
>
> >The use of the right amounts of certain fining agents can turn a mediocre
> >wine into a good wine, or a good wine into a _great_ wine!
>
> >It's necessary to conduct fining trials on any specific wine to determine
> >its best fining regimen, but that isn't really as hard to do as it
sounds.
>
> This is a real surprise to me - because I honestly thought that the
purpose
> of either fining
> or filtering was primarily to clarify the wine. I had previously thought
of
> fining as an option
> to strip tannin from a overly tannic wine (usually using gelatin or
> egg-white) and may be that is
> part of the equation - but my reading had always lead me to believe that
> these sorts of
> additives will "strip flavour" out of a wine and so I had been adverse to
> using them.
>
> I don't question Tom's comments - in fact quite the opposite, but I think
> this topic is definitely one worth
> discussing in more detail - because as winemakers who do not have control
> over the grapes we use - it is
> in the effective use of these techniques that we can make better wines.
>
> So a few quick questions.
> 1. If fining can be used to make a flavour difference - can filtering also
> be effective?

Absolutely! I just hate to get tho the point where that's the only good
option left. IMO, the best wines are the ones that are handled least
though.

> 2. Tom spoke mostly about using bentonite - which fining agents have the
> most to give as regards changing the flavour of a wine for the better?

In alphabetical order: bentonite, gelatin, isinglass, kieselsohl and skim
milk. Those are the only ones I have experience with. There are more, e.g.
egg whites. Personally, I didn't find egg whites to be very aggressive or
useful as a fining agent. Others may differ.

> 3. Since the discussion in the reference post was about red wines - is the
> same true for whites - and if so what advice would you have?

Fining is at _least_ as important for white wines.

> For example - I have a lightly oaked chardonnay - which spent only a brief
> time in a barrel as part of the initial break in period of that barrel. I
> realise that Tom would favour long term storage in a large barrel for his
> chardonnays - and that may be the only answer to the specifics of this
> issue - but the result of this brief oaking is a flavour profile of the
> chardonnay in which the oak and the fruit are not well integrated. The oak
> is not a smooth round full oak flavour, but more of an upfront oak bite.
Can
> a judiciuos fining smooth this out?

You didn't say whether this Chardonnay was barrel fermented or merely spent
some post-fermentation time in that new barrel. Also, it's necessary to
consider whether the barrel was new American, French or other oak.

Fining can definitely take the edge off of overoaking. Skim milk in
particular is a rather potent minus oak agent. I don't like using it for
just that reason. It will also strip color from wine. A typical light dose
would be about a quart (diluted with water 1 part skim milk diluted to 10
parts, with water, before mixing into the wine) per 1000 gallons.

And while I'm at it - how do you get
> that diacetyl butterscotch flavour - in working with Oak and Malolactic
and
> lees stirring, I have managed to bring out oak flavours, toasty yeast
> flavours, reduced fruitiness .... but I haven't managed to coax that
> butterscotch vanilla taste out of the wine.

From what I have read, diacetyl is absorbed by the lees. To maximize
diacetyl, ML is inoculated post fermentation after the wine has been racked
from its gross lees. Furthermore, the wine is then racked from the ML lees
at the completion of ML.

All of that is in apposition to sur lie aging. You have to decide to go one
way or the other. I suppose you could do _both_, but that's a logistical
PIA. I learned that lesson when I tried to make a no-ML barrel right
alongside a full ML barrel. Separate topping wines, being careful not to
inoculate the no-ML barrel from the other, etc. Too much trouble! Just
pick one style and focus on that.

Tom S

P.S. - Fining for flavor is a topic that merits a book, really. One post
doesn't do it much justice.