I should clarify. When I say upwards of 35-40 I am actually talking about
maceration time which would include say 5-10 days for fermentation with
actual EXTENDED maceration of 20-30 days. Some of the longest "macerators"
that I am aware of a

USA:
Opus
Mondavi
Signorello
Luna

ABROAD:
Artessa
Arboleda / Caliterra
Chateau Clinet
Chteau Prieuré-Lichine
Other Bordeaux (I believe extended maceration is traditional practice in
Bordeaux)


Mondavi uses long maceration at elevated temperatures.
Here is an interesting article on Mondavi's new Cabernet facility...
http://www.practicalwinery.com/janfeb01p21.htm

Excerpt: "Extended maceration (35 days on average) at warm temperatures
(83°F) enhances further extraction
of tannin substrates from the grape skins while hastening the reactions of
polymerization. This results in
substantial yet approachable wines with enhanced color stability." Also
mentioned in the article is Halan Estate which uses the same type of large
oak primary fermentors and I imaging they use a long maceration time as
well.

You are absolutely correct in your implication that extended maceration is
best employed only when very good fruit is available such that available
extract is high. I also agree with you that extraction is primarily a
matter of temperature. I think there is much debate, however, on the
benefits/merit of extended maceration. I think the benefits of extended
maceration has more to do with modifying the extract rather than increasing
the extract. Take Mondavi as an example. Their new Cabernet facility uses
oak fermentation tanks which allow the maceration temperature to be kept
higher through the duration of skin contact. This is a direct departure
from the direction they insisted on for Opus, namely stainless steel
fermentation tanks. Both Mondavi and Opus practice extended maceration at
elevated (~80-85F) temperatures but the difference lies in the type of
fermentor. Oak vessels also "breath" allowing very slow oxygenation of the
wine during maceration. StaVin has some interesting information on their
website about the role of oxygen and oak in wine tannin and color
stabilization. It appears that oxygen action on the wine produces small
amounts of acetaldehyde which can cause crosslinking reactions in
tannin-anthocyanin complexes helping to keep them in solution. StaVin
claims that certain extractable compounds from toasted oak can also cause
these crosslinking reactions. They also claim that in the absence of oxygen
and oak extractables, polymerization of tannins in a reductive environment
will lead to precipitation of tannin and color constituents.

So much to learn so little time!!

CHEERS!

Aaron



"JEP" > wrote in message
om...
> "Aaron Puhala" > wrote in message
>...
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > I've never heard of too long a maceration resulting in no tannins? Have
you
> > experienced this yourself or can you give me a reference? I believe
some
> > very fine CA cabernets and blend producers utilize upwards of 35-40 days
of
> > extended maceration with plenty of tannins remaining in the wine.
> >
> > CHEERS!
> >
> > Aaron
> >
>
> Yes, but they are starting with grapes that contain higher tannin
> levels than (at least I) get in my grapes shipped from California.
>
> Who are the wineries doing the extended maceration that long? The
> wineries I know that use (or used) extended maceration tend to be on
> the early drinking side rather than the long lasters. Of course, in
> general, new world producers have that reputation anyway.
>
> Extended maceration promotes polymerization of the tannins resulting
> in a softer wine. UC Davis literature includes this comment concerning
> extended maceration :
>
> "The surface of the skin cells may additionally
> provide a nucleating center for the precipitation or polymerization of
> compounds,decreasing their concentration in the wine."
>
> I have also experienced this myself when doing extended maceration.
> The tannin level may increase over the short term, but then the
> tannins soften and round out. If you start with a wine that has little
> tannin to begin with and employ extended maceration, this could cause
> a further reduction of the already low tannin level.
>
> There is also some indication (in other references)that extended
> maceration can reduce the acid content of the must due to an increase
> in the potassium extracted from the skins causing more acid to form
> bitartrate which precipitates out.
>
> BTW, UC Davis appears to believe that extended maceration does nothing
> to increase the extraction from the skins:
>
> "Several studies have shown that both extended maceration and cold
> soak do not really impact the level of skin components in the wine, as
> the principle factor enhancing extraction is high temperature."
>
>
> Andy