Darwin,

Last year was a tough year for getting grapes ripe. Along with
everyone else I learned alot. Here is what I am doing now after the
last 2 years. Like yourself I'm ADDING vines to my rows so instead of
8 ft spacings it's now 4 ft in-row spacing. I'm trying to convert from
a Geneva Double curtain to a VSP with only 1 fruiting wire. Here's
why. The vines I grow, chambourcin, have an upright growing pattern
and DO NOT match very well to a high cordon system especially the GDC
with 8 ft between POST spacing. The shoots were so hard to comb down I
needed a machette to get through. I've learned that before you pick a
trellis system you NEED to understand the growing pattern of the vines
your trying to grow. I also am a big believer now that even though the
GDC gives plenty of light and airflow it's a tougher trellis system to
manage with an upright growing vine. So I think what you have as far
as vine spacing is actually not bad BUT IMHO you need to have only 1
fruiting wire to facilitate airflow and light interception for quality
fruit and buds. The closer the spacings the more potential crop you
will have because of the extra vines but you can't over crop or
vegetate the vines. 4X5 spacing is fine, they use close spacings in
europe. The reason for such big between row spacings talked about so
often is for the machinery needed to tend to the vines NOT the growing
needs of the vines.Actually , the smaller spacings will naturally
inhibit the vines because of the competition between them. Like you
said , thinning is a way to increase quality BUT if you prune heavily
to 2 canes laid in opposite direction with the correct # of buds for
the variety, which would be 1/2 the recommended for 8ft in-row
spacings since now your using 4ft, you'll have a canopy easily
penetrated by air, light and fungicides with the fruit happy as a pig
in spit. Just my 2 cents.

Bob



Darwin Vander Stelt" > wrote in message >...
> My experience with the 2003 harvest has really brought home to me the
> importance of limiting the production if you want quality wine. My hobby
> vinyard had about 250 vines producing last year, I use close spacing, 4 x 5,
> and I fed the birds at least half the grapes. I still made 120 gals of wine!
> Compared to the year before when I thinned much more agressively, the wine
> is tasteless and watery. There are no off flavors, no evident cellar
> problems, just plain old watery wine. I bought bird netting this year and am
> really cutting the crop back to maybe half of what we had last year. It was
> a lesson I'll never forget! You can read it in a book but it doesn't really
> make an impact like tasting a barrel of cab franc/merlot that tastes like
> its maybe 1/3 chardonnay with some water added! So my advice is plant some
> extra, buy bird netting, and severely limit the yields.
> "William Frazier" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > kenny wrote "Thanks for the information I will set down and work out how
> > much I think I will really need I was a little aggressive with the amount
> of
> > wine I need in a year probably 50 gallons will be more in the balll park.
> > that is with putting 1/2 up to age for an extended time."
> >
> > Kenny - The old suggestion of 1 gallon wine per vine is a good ballpark
> > figure. But don't let that stop you from planting several hundred vines
> if
> > you have the room and the interest. With lots of vines you can limit the
> > clusters of grapes per vine and increase the quality of your harvest.
> Also,
> > you will have bad weather some years and if you have lots of vines you may
> > still have enough grapes for your wine. And, you may end up selling part
> of
> > your harvest to offset the cost of chemicals, fertilizer, etc. I would
> > leave 10 feet between rows...makes it much easier to drive the tractor
> > through the vineyard to spray fungicide and insecticide. This farming you
> > know.
> >
> > Bill Frazier
> > Olathe, Kansas
> >
> >