On 6/7/2012 10:02 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "Hell > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 6/7/2012 8:47 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>> "A Moose in > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I understand that raw milk has a higher probability of containing
>>>> pathogens than pasteurized milk.
>>>> Can the raw milk not be tested for these pathogens?
>>>
>>> All depends on how it is stored. It's not the miit is the vessel. More
>>> people get sick from pasteurized milk every year.
>>
>> And the vessel includes the cow it came from, specifically, its teats.
>
> Humans have consumed raw milk for a long time. Keep the teet clean and you
> don't have problems.

Humans have suffered from tuberculosis and other diseases for
millenia, too. Same as parasitic infections from meat consumption. You
seem to buy into the delusion that nature is by default pure and it is
human practices that are the problem. That simply isn't true. Of
course, if you want to pretend that unsafe practices are safe simply
because they're traditional, you're got to delude yourself.


>
>> We've had raw milk producers here caught running unsanitary operations,
>> including filthy barns and failure to adequately clean their cows' udders
>> and teats before milking. In those cases, it isn't just the milk that is a
>> potential hazard, it's the farmer's lack of care for his cows' and
>> customers' well-being that also puts them at risk.
>
> It's not the milk, it's the human practices.

It's both, Mr. Delusion.

>
>> Folks who think food was better or safer or more nutritious back in the
>> good old days *really* need to read some historical and medical texts. Our
>> regulatory practices didn't come from nowhere; they arose to deal with
>> widespread, dangerous issues related to food production and supply.
>
> In Wisconsin they have a special enforcement unit that tracks down people
> who prduce and consume raw milk.
>
>> One of the nation's most influential proponents of milk pasteurization was
>> Dr. Charles Mayo, of the famous Mayo brothers. The Mayo clinic dealt with
>> so _many_ cases of people afflicted with tuberculosis from infected milk
>> that Dr. Charlie built his own dairy on his own property to research and
>> propose sanitary handling practices for the public's safety. He did an
>> awful lot of lobbying to promote passage of the pasteurization laws
>> because of the toll raw milk consumption took on so many families.
>
> Back in those days they barely knew what a bacteria was, how to isolate it
> and how to prevent it from growing.

You really are ignorant, aren't you? The Mayos were around long after
germ theory came about. They were medical pioneers of the *twentieth*
century, doofus. The whole point of Dr. Mayo's dairy herding was to
prove to the farmers and the legislators (often the same individuals)
that, contrary to claims, sanitary farming and milk processing
practices would improve public safety at a negligible expense.

I drank raw milk every day from age I
> dunno up til about 8. So did the whole town.

So did my grandmother's family. She lost her husband and her youngest
daughter. She was by far not the only one. TB was one of the most
common causes of illness and deaths prior to the imposition of dairy
regulations (including pasteurization) and vaccinations of both cows
and humans.

>
> Zoonosis is highly debated today.

Only by kooks and cranks, not by science.

Many scientists are unconvinced you can
> get TB from cows.

Okay, you have proved yourself an ignorant kook. Transmission of TB
between cows and humans was known a hundred years ago, kook.
Contemporary cases still arise and are reported.


Besides, we can test cows for TB so we know they are safe
> to produce milk.This isn't 1880 ya know.

It wasn't then, either. It was the twentieth century. Nineteen-teens
and twenties, matter of fact. It took that long for regulatory laws to
be passed and the milk supply to be made safe.

Back in the day you describe
> people also died from cholera, polio, plague and a dozen other deadly
> diseases. Not to mention trichinosis which is all but unheard of today. We
> can safely produce and consume raw milk today.

Raw milk producers have proven they can't. They've proven it's about
ideology, not safety. They don't care about safe practices, they don't
care about consequences. That's why they get caught, cited, and
continue their unsafe ways.

BTW, trichinosis is all but unheard in *pork*, thanks to pork having
the toughest regulatory inspection process _because_ of its historical
tendency to be infected. Again, it's not that trichinosis was
uncommon. It's that modern science and regulation made trichinosis
uncommon in our food supply.

> Organic cows are the way to go.

No, Mr. Deluded. As I told you, Nature is not naturally pure, safe, or
clean. Organic anything can be inherently dangerous or containing
hazards even without human intervention. In fact, human intervention
can make it safer.