"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> "Farm1" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
>>> "Farm1" > wrote in
>>>
>>>> Someone, did indeed say that and that someone was Churchill.
>>>> What we don't know is the source to whom he was referring.
>>>> We don't know if Churchill was actually quoting someone else
>>>> or if the source he was referring to was himself.
>>>
>>> But the point of an attribution is that it is given to the
>>> first person to say it,
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>>> otherwise I could "say" it and insist I be
>>> given the attribution if the only reason you need is that you
>>> have "said" it. If you insist on innacuracies of that sort,
>>> quote attribution becomes largely meaningless.
>>
>> Just because an attributed quote included "it has been said"
>> does not mean that the person saying that is not the
>> originator.
>
> I can see that coming to terms with the possibility that Churchill
> did not say your favourite quote is hard on you.

Well if you 'see' that then you 'see' wrong.

>>> He didn't have to
>>> be there with Nicholson to be imparted that bit of knowledge.
>>> So I'm not saying Churchill didn't "say" it, I'm saying he
>>> was not the originator and therefore the quote cannot be
>>> attributed to him...and at some point, he admitted that.
>>
>> There is no suggestion that anyone else other than Churchill
>> said it anywhere, or at any time.
>
> Which is not actually a valid argument.

:-)) It's very valid if we are discussing attributions.

>> Anyway, by the time Nicolson wrote the cite in his diary,
>> Churchill would have already been 75 years old and had already
>> suffered his first stroke. The year after Nicolson entered the
>> quote in his diary, Churchill suffered another stroke. I have
>> no idea if M-B would be a reliable source for anything but I
>> do know that Nicholson does have such a reputation.
>
> Yes, you have no idea...

Tut tut. No need to be insulting just because you don't like what I have to
say.

what you are attributing to Nicholson is
> the ability to record, not to attribute. Perhaps he walked in
> half-way through the conversation and missed the part where Winston
> was saying to others "You'll never guess what I heard smythe-ffyffe
> say the other day..."

That's a possibility, but why didn't Winnie tell M-B that it was
smythe-ffyffe who said it? And there should be some reference by way of
attibution if sythe-fyffe was known to have said it. There isn't such an
attribution or I'm sure you would have mentioned it rather than to have
resorted to insult.