"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
> "Farm1" > wrote in news:k1uml4$i8i$1@dont-
> email.me:
>
>>>> There is no suggestion that anyone else other than Churchill
>>>> said it anywhere, or at any time.
>>>
>>> Which is not actually a valid argument.
>>
>>:-)) It's very valid if we are discussing attributions.
>
> Not really because as is the case with many people, they are
> credited with saying things which in fact were said by others and
> they are quoting. So what you can say about something like this
> quote is that Churchill quoted it (because he says so himself
> that that is what he is doing).

I would certainly not say that. The best I would say is that the first
known instance of it's use was by Churchill.

Someone who was the originator
> of the quote can repeat it without prefacing it with a statement
> such as "As has been said before..."

Indeed, but no-one ever has been shown to have been the person who can say
that.

> There is nothing wrong with saying Churchill was quoting. He
> certainly didn't think there was anything wrong with it.

Of course there is nothing wrong with saying that Chuchill was quoting,
however as I have said a number of times, there is absolutley no proof that
he was indeed quoting.

You insist that he was quoting but never offer any proof of another person
having said it. I agree that it is possible that he was quoting but it is
also as likely that he might have used it as a devise to add emphasis to his
words aobut democracy.

Either way, until there is proof that someone else did say it, the
originator and thus the person to whom it is attributed must remain as
Churchill. That is how attributions work.

I think you and I have done this subject to death so although it was
interesting, I'll now bow out. I really don't particularly care who said it
but once you raised it as an issue I would now really like to know because I
am always curious. Until however, any alternate proof comes to light, I'm
stuck with it being Churchill. I don't mind that because it means I don't
have to put a correction into my 'Oxford Book of Quotations'.