On 6/22/2013 9:56 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Kalmia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Saturday, June 22, 2013 6:45:11 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
>>>> I got to thinking about this later. It is pretty much the same in
>>>> UK. Many
>>>>
>>>> Scots hate the English. Most will not show it, but if you hear
>>>> those when
>>>>
>>>> there are no English around ... otoh most English love the Scots.
>>>> Work that
>>>>
>>>> one out
>>>
>>> Perhaps if you explain just how sovereign a nation Scotland is, or
>>> isn't, we would better understand.
>>
>> Atm they are not sovereign but some politicians and - from the results
>> of surveys - about 30% of the population want to be. Atm they are
>> part of the UK. They have a Scottish parliament in Edinburgh that
>> controls some government functions but the Scottish Nationalist Party,
>> who are currently in power, and some others want complete independence
>> from the UK. This hatred of some Scots for the English is not new.
>> It goes back hundreds of years. At the moment, Alex Salmond, leader of
>> the SNP, is promoting a big festival next year in remembrance of the
>> battle of Bannockburn in 1314, which the Scots delight in as one of
>> their few military victories against the English. Nothing to do with
>> the fact that the referendum on Scottish Independence is being held in
>> September next year of course Unfortunately half of them think
>> Braveheart (the film) (with Mel Gibson - who has less to do with
>> Scotland than about anybody you could think of - in the lead role) was
>> a documentary!
>>
>> I don't mind if Scotland gets independence (I live in Scotland) but
>> the Scots will find they won't have the money to spare as they do
>> now. We (the Scots) get (for example) free university tuition fees
>> etc which the rest of the UK can't afford. But they get a lot of
>> money from the UK gov and the assertion that income from north sea oil
>> and gas, (which they will claim) which are fast depleting resources,
>> will fund all their socialist policies is nonsense. The Scottish
>> Nationalist Party (Salmond) make up policy on the back of an envelope
>> to try to sway the people, but it is often knocked down and it is
>> becoming embarrassing. One minute they are making bold assertions
>> about becoming a full member of the EU on the back of having been part
>> of the UK's membership, which is then flat out denied by the EU
>> leaders and bureaucrats, and the next saying that they would keep the
>> Pound as their currency, even though the Bank of England say that
>> might not be allowed and the EU is insisting that any new members
>> adopt the Euro! They just say whatever they think sounds good even
>> though they haven't properly researched the reality and implications
>> and more and more Scottish people are recognising them for what they
>> are. It is a shame really, because if they researched it and costed
>> it properly they might have a chance.
>>
>> They even decided to give 16 year olds a vote in the referendum, they
>> said on the basis that the kids would be of voting age when(if)
>> Scotland became independent, but really because they thought that the
>> youngsters were a) naturally attracted to the concept of independence
>> and b) would be easier to influence. Unfortunately for the SNP,
>> surveys among the youngsters show the percentage that are pro SNP
>> (Scottish Independence Party) is not much higher than in adults and
>> even less of them have any respect or liking for Salmond. The SNP is
>> even losing voters in its former strongholds like the NE of Scotland
>> due to the hash they have made of things since being in the majority
>> after the last national elections.
>>
>> The fact is Scottish independence isn't going to happen this time or
>> in the near future and the SNP might well lose their majority in the
>> next elections.
>>
>> Well, you did ask
>
> I ought to have added, Sheila Viemeister, (the only Scot posting here)
> might disagree I look forward to her views)
>

It's worth noting that the horror Cromwell visited upon the Scots after
the Dunbar invasion included enslaving many and shipping them off to the
colonies.

But that is not Cromwell's sole legacy:

http://www.thereformation.info/cromwell.htm

For eight years the Scots had been demanding ecclesiastical harmony of
the English but in retaliation the Cromwellian regime enforced political
cooperation and ecclesiastical tolerance. With and from this flowed a
firm and impartial government that was relatively honest, even handed
and efficient. For good measure in an act of considerable magnanimity (
though they did not see it as such), the Scots were offered a union with
England and representation in the English Parliament .

~

On 3 September 1658 (his lucky day after the battles of Dunbar and
Worcester) the Lord Protector, Oliver Cromwell died, leaving the reins
in the hands of his son Richard who was not of his father`s calibre. In
a short space of time Richard Cromwell departed from the scene and the
army was left in power The demand for parliamentary power and abolition
of rule by the sword gathered momentum in England but it was in Scotland
that action took place. Here Lt. General Monk had discussions with
Archbishop Sharp and summoned representatives to Edinburgh to launch his
plan to restore a Scottish king and Scotland`s independence. They were
charged with maintaining order in his absence while he and his army
marched to London, arriving in February 1660. The English Parliament was
restored and the issue of the Union was raised but discussion was not
serious. In their fourth session in April the Parliament voted in favour
of restoring the old constitution and Scotland had her independence and
monarch once more. Charles was consulted by emissaries and the second
Declaration at Breda (almost certainly based on suggestions made by
Monk) confirmed his return. The terms this time were not dictated by
Presbyterian zealots, and were much more acceptable to Charles. With it
came a vengeful Restoration and in Scotland twenty eight years of
oppression, including the "Killing Time" of 1685, and the attempt of
James II to restore the supremacy of the Catholic Church.