Reg wrote:
> Richard Periut wrote:
>
> Garlic in oil, when mishandled, can indeed result in botulism poisoning.
> Baked potatoes wrapped in foil, when mishandled, can also result in
> botulism
> poisoning.
>
Now you are changing your tune a bit. It went from someone infusing
olive oil with green onions, and voila, you have botulin toxin. It's not
that way, or should you be more specific: someone carelessly put some
green onions, without washing them, in some garlic oil, and let it rest
in a warm place overnight or for several hours, et cetera.
The way you referred to it can be very misleading.
> First you say garlic in oil can't:
>
>> You have no clue to what you are talking about. The type of food
>> poisoning associated with botulism a syndrome at the neurological
>> level. Oil "standing" for a while will cause the spore to germinate
>> that quickly. Do a search on google and realize what nonsense you are
>> talking.
>
>
> Then you say baked potatoes wrapped in foil can't:
See aforementioned explanation, but replace oil and onions with potatoes.
>
>> Guy, PLEASE get a friggin book on microbiology and stop babbling. You
>> need warmth, anaerobic conditions, and spores, for the aforementioned
>> to happen. A potato wrapped in foil for a couple of hours wont cut
>> it. The cases usually involve thick viscous foods (stews, soups, et
>> cetera,) which can totally seal the spores in an anaerobic milleau,
>> warmth for several hours, and usually involving root veggies et cetera
>> which are contaminated with the spores.
>
>
> You're wrong on both counts. Try a little reading.
<sigh> I'm not going to be redundant with you.
>
> From the Centers for Disease Control page on botulism:
>
> Vehicles of transmission have included homemade salsa,
> BAKED POTATOES COOKED IN ALUMINUM FOIL, cheese sauce,
> GARLIC IN OIL, and traditionally prepared salted or
> fermented fish in Alaska.
>
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/disea...botulism_t.htm
>
> There's lots more on the CDC site on the subject, including case
> studies. If you're really interested in the subject I suggest
> you read it.
>
>> and am credentialed by the ABIM. www.abim.org ,look me up.
>
>
> Congrats. You're living proof of how many doctors are woefully
> uninformed on the subject of food and nutrition.
>
No my friend; your living proof that the average layman, can take a bit
of information from a medical site or book, and turn it into
misinformation for the rest.
You have to be clear when you make such a statement. Again, let me
process this as clear as possible: for botulin toxin to form, you need
the contaminated food item (onions, potatoes, most things in contact
with soil that harbor the ubiquitous clostridia,) then it needs to be on
the humid side, an anaerobic environment (i.e., very low or no O2 at
all,) and finally TIME. Notice how the CDC specifically instructs its
readers that foods should be served hot, or refrigerated immediately.
Most people would tend to keep foods in a warm place, in anticipation of
eating it or serving it later. This may contribute to the formation of
such toxin if other conditions are met.
Your blanket statement needs refinement. It's like saying smoking
cigarettes causes cancer. That is not true. That smoking cigarettes is
the major factor in 90% of cases of lung cancer is true, but it's not
the only factor; genes, other environmental factors, nutrition, et
cetera, also play roles. The proof of this is the many heavy smokers
that live into their 80's and 90's and die of other diseases.
Never speak in black or white, but rather, in shades of gray.
Richard
--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."
Hannibal "The Cannibal"
Silence Of The Lambs 1991