On 8/29/04 10:27 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

>
>
> williamwaller wrote:
>>
>>
>> ...I suspect this is why we got past the Stone Age.
>
> I don't argue a Luddite position. There are times when
> technology and precision measurments are indispensable. I am
> saying that it is easy to get on a quest for knowledge about
> bread that can get in the way of learning how to actually make
> bread.

Every learning curve involves turbulence. Sometimes we need direct
experience, sometimes we need exposure to another perspective or
hand-me-down knowledge or a contrary opinion (DickA for example).
>
> However, in this hand I hold a loaf of Wonder Bread, it's great
> stuff. It is made by high tech equiptment that is tended by the
> best engineers and scienists that money can buy. They have every
> tool known to keep the production process flawless. Over here, I
> have a loaf of bread flown in from France(right now you know this
> is fiction) from the bakery of M. Poliane. This loaf is baked in
> a wood fired brick oven of an old design. The baker is not
> allowed to even use a thermometer. He must know his oven well
> enough to gauge the temperature by the look of the coals and the
> feel of the heat on his hand. ( I read this on the Poliane
> Website). Which bread do you want with your wine and cheese?
>
I choose M. Poilane. But truth be told... I would be just as satisfied with
your bread, Charles.

>> So the professionals: Nancy Silverton, Peter Reinhart et al. don't get it.

> The late James Beard wrote a great book called "Beard on Bread."
> The book is famous for the misinformation about sourdough it
> contained. Mr. Beard was a great cook, author, and eater.
> Because he was regarded as almost a god by the foodies of the
> time, his words on sourdough were treated as gospel. Worse, his
> misinformation was quoted, cribed, and outright plagerized by
> lesser writers for years. Derivitive writings are all over the
> place. I believed what he wrote and it delayed my sucess with
> sourdough for some time. Ignoring the sourdough advice, the book
> is still a good read and still in print.
>
I had/have Beard's book too. Fortunately I relied on the Tassajara Bread
book back then. Not that it was much better but I believe the monastery was
using an Alan Scott oven. That steered them in the right direction.

> Nancy Silverton and Peter Reinhart are good authors of a more
> recent vintage. I have all their books and have enjoyed reading
> them. Now I wouldn't for a moment disparage either as a baker or
> author or as a person, but I still think it would be a mistake to
> treat every word they write as gospel. I have learned that
> lesson. Anyway, nobody can be the expert in every aspect of
> baking.

> For example. I think if I wanted to have a serious discussion on
> beginning a starter from scratch, I would rather have that
> discussion with Samartha than Nancy. If, God forbid, I needed to
> have information on how enzymes facillitate the chemical
> transformations in a fermentation process, I would probably
> consult Dick Adams before Peter Reinhart.

True enough. Nancy's method of developing a starter from scratch is the most
complicated I have read. But if you consulted DickA for enzymatic issues
RoyB would be insulted.

>> What's mo we are sheep.
>
> I did not say that. You did. But, there is no question that
> many folks read things, get confused, and post here seeking
> clarification. My point is simply that the best way to learn
> about bread is to bake some.
>
True. But it was not a far-fetched impression...
>
>> Baaa!!!
>>
> Then, on the other hand, if it bleets like a sheep...
>
Or quacks like a duck...

> Regards,
>
> Charles

All the best,

Will