"Roy Basan" > wrote in message
om...
> "FMW" > wrote in message
>...
>
> >
> > OK, let's take an example from today's bread making. I've been working
on a
> > formula for Tunisian bread. I started with a formula from a french
bread
> > making text. The ingredients are flour, semolina, oil, salt, water and
> > yeast. When I made the French formula the bread was flat and
overhydrated.
> > No surprise. I'm using different flour and different yeast than the
French
> > bakers who developed the formula. So I adjusted it for my high gluten
flour
> > and my yeast. The result was a bread of good texture but it developed a
gas
> > ball that separated the top crust from the crumb. I've spent the past
two
> > weeks trying to get rid of that gas ball. I've adjusted the ratio of
> > semolina to bread flour, I've adjusted hydration from a near batter to a
> > dough that causes my mixer to labor, I've adjusted the fermentation and
> > proofing. I've adjusted baking temps. Today's bread had two
adjustments -
> > one was a longer mixing time and the other was an increase of flour over
> > semolina in the ratio. The gas ball was bigger than ever. Tomorrow
I'll
> > increase the semolina and reduce the fermentation time and slash it to
> > provide a place for gas to escape. The original formula is quite clear
that
> > the bread shouldn't be slashed. In other words, I started with an
> > established formula that needs to be made in France with French
ingredients
> > to work right. Adapting it to the U.S. has been very difficult. You
can't
> > blindly follow a formula until it has been tested in your kitchen with
your
> > ingredients. Since I don't have a formula for it designed for an
American
> > kitchen I have to redesign it myself. Experimentation is absolutely
> > necessary. I don't see any other way. The alternative is to limit
oneself
> > only to formulas that have been tested locally.
> >
> > Fred
> > Foodie Forums
> > http://www.foodieforums.com
> I agree with that point that every formula if adapted to a different
> location should be modifed in order to fit the existing ingredients
> conditions ,No big deal as you are not dealing with technically
> exacting formula as used in industrial bakeries.
> And any sensible baker would do the same thing as you do, extensively
> test the recipe to fit the existing condtions.
> Going to your problem....
> I think it has nothing to do with yeast, as that ingredient is fairly
> uniform,
> I am aware that most yeast in the north african region are imported
> from europe and turkey. Others are using their locally made compressed
> yeast.
> If that tunisian bread was made with a weaker flour then the use of
> high gluten will provide stronger gluten that is different from the
> wheats being used in tunisia...It is an overkill, may even promote
> defect due to the different naure of the gluten quality that will
> result in a slightly differnt ingredient interaction for thta
> particular recipe., besides a stronger flour tends to make a bigger
> gas bubbles that is not an asset in most arabic breads. How about
> using the medium gluten wheats but reduce your hydration.
> I am familiar with some arabic wheat milled and grown in the desert
> condtions where the protein level is lower and the milling quality is
> not the same as in the United states. Most african flour had higher
> ash content but medium protein..It can have the similar protein
> content of the T-55 french flour but the gluten quality is a g bit
> tighter.due to the dry condtions of wheat growing in the desert.
> I am also aware that in algerria an tunisia they mix the local flour
> with french flour ;
> Your choice of flour is too strong for such bread, and you are not
> processing the way how this arabic bakers do to their dough; and as
> far as I know tunisian bakers use the fork type of mixers that is
> known for its gentler development of the dough than the standard
> planetary and spiral mixer. Hence knowing that they mix the dough
> longer but not continously but intermittently.
> I had also remembered when I was in the middle east in particular
> saudi arabia, I met a tunisian expatriate baker who followed the
> french system of baking. What I noticed in their baking habit is the
> habitual use of autolysis. The mix the dough partly and then allow
> it to rest, then remix again and the cycle is repeated many times
> depending upon the strength of the flour. before its finally allowed
> longer fermentation.
> In that process the gluten is allowed to be at the same time developed
> and relaxed preventing unsightly gas formation to develop.in the
> resulting dough. hence they are using the mutli step mixing and
> resting to develope and mature the dough properly..
> They are also known to use old dough that they add to their new
> batch.
> IIRC The guy was doing it to enable the bread to be even grained,..
> He was always watchful about the hydration that he either reduce the
> water or add more flour to attain the consistency that he feels
> allright.
> That tuniisan baker just do things by feel, no problem with that, he
> has mastered his bread making.,
> And he never follow the cookbook hydration, he knows very well that
> flour quality are variable
> Ii am not sure if its related to your problem.
> Roy

I finally got a proper Tunisian bread. I went back to the original
forumula. The original formula called for 6 oz. of oil to go with 2 lb. of
flour. That's a really oily bread and I had cut it back to 3 oz. to make it
more palatable to myself. That change had reduced the amount of retardation
the fat contributes and, apparently, caused the gas ball. The bread was
oily and flat compared to my less oily version and I didn't particularly
like it, but I do understand the problem now. I'm going to cut the
semolina in half. That's a pretty hard flour and reducing it's share of the
load may bring the problem under control, at least a little. It won't taste
the same but the difference should be relatively subtle and won't bother me
as much as loaves that have "blown their tops." Thanks for the input.

Fred
Foodie Forums
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