Ian Hoare > wrote:

> Salut/Hi Mark,
>
> I've just read through this thread, and although I hesitate to disagree with
> Josh, (and I don't really) I think he's left you with slightly the wrong
> impression.
>
> le/on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:55:01 -0400, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >I was always under the impression that grapes, left to themselves,
> >will rot and turn into wine.
>
> Firstly, you describe two entirely different processes.
>
> Left to themselves, grapes very probably WILL rot. If they do, they won't
> turn into wine. (First process)
>
> The rotting mass might just ferment a bit, since yeasts (the micro-organisms
> responsible for turning sugar into alcohol) do occur naturally on grape
> skins. (Second process).
>
> However, a rotting oozing mess, with a low alcohol content, which is turning
> vinegary almost as fast as it ferments, is a long way from wine.
>
> The production of wine (as St Helier says) involves the deliberate
> modification/interruption of the natural processes I described above. If
> you are defining wine as the end result of any fermentation process that
> contains alcohol, then you would have to include beer, bread and rum!
> Clearly that definition won't do.
>
> > However, a friend of mine recently told >me that wine must undergo a very
> > specific fermentation process to make
> >it "alcoholic," if that's the right word.
>
> That's much closer to the truth, although as I said above, yeasts DO occur
> naturally, and IF you were to pile up a load of grape bunches in a large vat
> (especially if you were to crush them by stamping on them) you certainly
> could get wine.
>
> For a good description of the process, try almost any of Hugh Johnson's
> books on wine. "The History of Wine" "Wine". Even the "World Atlas of Wine"
> has some information.

Thanks to all of you for your polite and informative replies. It's
nice to be able to ask a newbie question with having to undergo a
verbal lynching.

Just to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly: grapes left
to themselves may indeed eventually turn into some remote semblance of
an alcoholic beverage, but only in a purely legalistic definition,
because the end product would be nothing any sane human would dare
consume. Is that accurate?

Thanks again!