Salut/Hi Mark,

le/on Sat, 02 Oct 2004 03:07:35 -0400, tu disais/you said:-


>> > However, a friend of mine recently told >me that wine must undergo a very
>> > specific fermentation process to make
>> >it "alcoholic," if that's the right word.
>>
>> That's much closer to the truth, although as I said above, yeasts DO occur
>> naturally, and IF you were to pile up a load of grape bunches in a large vat
>> (especially if you were to crush them by stamping on them) you certainly
>> could get wine.
>>
>> For a good description of the process, try almost any of Hugh Johnson's
>> books on wine. "The History of Wine" "Wine". Even the "World Atlas of Wine"
>> has some information.
>
>Thanks to all of you for your polite and informative replies. It's
>nice to be able to ask a newbie question with having to undergo a
>verbal lynching.

In general, here in this NG, we all remember the time we were newbies, and
we all remember the help, encouragement and tasting opportunities more
experienced wine lovers gave us. However, we (I) can be short with people
who, under the guise - or more often the pretense - of being newbies, either
seek to provoke or to proselytize.

>Just to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly: grapes left
>to themselves may indeed eventually turn into some remote semblance of
>an alcoholic beverage, but only in a purely legalistic definition,
>because the end product would be nothing any sane human would dare
>consume. Is that accurate?

Nearly.

Left to themselves, they'll go to vinegar and thence to carbon dioxide and
water. If, about half way through, you were to press the mush, you would get
some liquid which contained some alcohol. Fermentation is but one (fairly
early) stage in the decomposition and decay of grapes. You have to
differentiate between the "end product", ie when the reacting mass reaches
relative stability (which will contain no alcohol) and the intermediate
stage, after most of the fermentation has taken place and before other
reactions have gone too far.

I get the impression you're engaged elsewhere with a discussion which may
just have theological overtones. A piece of advice. Fundamentalist theology
has no connection wth reason. NEVER engage in such arguments. A logical
system which defines and measures reality by the extent to which it conforms
to statements in any kind of religious book or religious "tradition", has no
connection with any rational process. You might as well try to discuss the
laws of thermodynamics with a tree. One could (using good fundamentalist
logic) make a perfectly good case to show that the hurricanes attacking
Florida are a warning to Jed Bush, and that the attacks against the USA are
a mark of God's anger over GW Bush's election. After all, that's just what
the Bible says happened to the Jews when they left the straight and narrow.

I don't believe that for a moment, but it is the sort of simplistic argument
that gets used by fundamentalists of all religions.

Bringing this back on topic, therefore, and condensing the answers. If it be
hypothetically true that the decomposition of grapes could, when interrupted
at exactly the right moment allow an alcoholic liquid to be extracted, a)
you couldn't call it wine, and b) it is only an early stage in a process
leading to the production of CO2 and water.
>Thanks again!

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
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