Thanks Jeff for the detailed response. Sounds like your on to something.

Bob


"Jeff Chorniak" > wrote in message >...
> See if your browser isn't set to medium, for text and display size.
>
> The vines are 4 years old. This is the first year in hydroponics. For
> adaptation purposes I limited the amount of clusters this year. I limited my
> yield to mere liters after crush. I'd thought of thinning clusters to
> nothing at all, but wanted to harvest some to see what submersion in water
> would do to the fruit.
>
> I took a trip to niagara to compare my clusters with soil grown cab franc on
> mature vines and noticed little difference. I took my refractometer with me
> to compare Brix. Niagara had a high sugar level, but it was expected since
> my vines took off late this year and we've had an eternal spring. Summer was
> a bummer. No one got good sugar here this year, and therefore I can't reach
> a decent conclusion.
>
> As for flavour. The jury is still out until this first batch is ready to
> bottle and age.
>
> Regarding simulating flavors...that too is a matter to be determined.
> However, I have heard others suggest it can be done. Even so, the proof will
> be in the bottle. There are ways of customizing the nutrient solution to
> influence grape flavor.
>
> In the previous post I mentioned the flood and drain system, which keeps the
> roots wet, and highly oxygenated, rather than constantly submerged. If
> submersion influences sugar, the flood and drain is the solution. Also,
> aeroponics is another method which keeps grape roots wet.
>
> Next season I will be employing two methods alternately. Beginning with the
> static bubble to maintain turgor pressure for evapotranspiration, and then
> switch over to flood and drain in mid to late summer into October to
> maintain nutrient levels and cut back on water.
>
> As for leave color. the real leafcolor is all over the spectrum, and I
> didn't bother tweeking the tint in the images.
>
> Jeff
>
> "bob" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Jeff ,
> >
> > Interesting stuff. Couple things.
> >
> > 1. I can't get your web site to come up looking "normal". Does it come
> > up fine in your browser? I've tried Netcape 7.1 AND IE 6.0.
> >
> > 2. How old are those vines and how many gallons of wine did you get
> > this year from 12 vines?
> >
> > 3. How do the grapes taste compared to soil grown CF. The berries look
> > GREAT BUT they seem rather big for Cabernet Franc. Does the abundance
> > of water dilute the flavor? I could see this being great for table
> > grapes but have you compared the taste to soil grown CF in the area?
> >
> > 4. With hydoponics, can you simulate limestone/shale/other
> > minerals/etc... in the water?
> >
> > 5. Are your leaves a dark green or is that just the picture that makes
> > them look light green?
> >
> >
> > Interested in you answers.
> >
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > "Jeff Chorniak" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Cost per pound can't be calculated until I know I'm producing maximum
> > > yields. The vines are still young. Each year will produce a greater
> yield.
> > > Eventually the yield will max out proportionatley to allowable root
> size.
> > >
> > > Cost per vine to set up depends on which system you want to use. There
> are
> > > several configurations for hydroponics. I am currently working with a
> static
> > > bubble system. That is a system where the roots are suspended in
> nutrient
> > > solution constantly bubbled with oxygen.
> > >
> > > 12 vines are being bubbled by 6 pumps ($16 each; Wal Mart), plus hoses
> and
> > > reservoirs (minimal costs, $3 for a pail, a buck for hoses, etc). Then
> > > there's auxiliary hardware for electrical wiring, trellising, etc. It's
> > > nickel and dime, but can add up. The greatest cost is the nutrient
> solution.
> > > Nutrient solutions are concentrated and diluted in water to parts per
> > > million. Maintaining pH and solution concentration requires a pH meter
> which
> > > varies according to what kind you buy, and an EC meter, which measure
> the
> > > electrical conductivity of the solution; that is, the concentration of
> > > mineral salts in the water.
> > >
> > > Some costs are one-time, others, like nutrients, are regular.
> > >
> > > It's the nutrient that requires change every two weeks. Aside from that,
> > > there are other more economical systems like flood and drain: Reservoirs
> > > fill and drain on a timer. The roots are kept wet, but not submurged.
> > >
> > > I could go on, but there are countless variations on the same theme.
> > >
> > > Can you grow 200 vines? My vineyard is designed for the small scale home
> > > winegrower who can't or doesn't want to grow grapes in soil. However,
> there
> > > are two vineyards I've hear of doing it large scale. One in Kenya,
> growing
> > > table grapes, and another in Israel. The website for the one in Israel
> is:
> > > http://hydroponics.homestead.com/index1.html
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > "J F" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > >
> > > > "Jeff Chorniak" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Africus Rex has undergone a major, major change in grape growing, as
> you
> > > > > will see. Even so, the chage has increased health in the vines in
> spite
> of
> > > > > the garbage weather we've had this summer. Autumn weather has been
> > > > > extraordianry for ripening conditions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check out: www.africusrex.com
> > > >
> > > > Hi Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > What is the final cost per pound of grapes using this method?
> > > >
> > > > What is the cost per vine to set up the system?
> > > >
> > > > Will the cost scale down if you planted a larger number, say 200?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >