On 29 Dec 2004 08:23:51 -0800, "Will"
> wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:04:06 -0700, Samartha
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Kenneth: flour sterilized? - Hardly because it was active and
>smelled sour.
>>
>> Hi Samartha,
>>
>> Perhaps you are right, but IIRC it was active only at the
>> very start. That pointed me in the direction of
>> contamination rather than the growth of critters in the
>> flour.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>If the culture environment is dryer, as in dough-like, you can avoid
>most, if not all, of the opportunistic growth from undesireable
>bacteria. The appropriate microbial culture comes with fresh grain. It
>is the basis of a symbiotic ecology which makes makes sprouting
>efficient. Your gut carries bacterial for the same purpose: to make
>energy conversion efficient. Too much water is not a natural state for
>sourdough culture(s). Samartha has mentioned on several occassions that
>stirring to oxygenate is important. Why might this be? Too much water?
>All of the comments about hooch indicate bad culture practices, wastes
>are inbalancing the culture process. There is nothing in the
>grain-to-mature-plant cycle that works under water. Grain rots in a
>flooded field.
>
>So does flour under water.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

I don't dispute your suggestion, but the logic seems a bit
tortured...

First, though the yeasts do, indeed, come "with fresh grain"
it is my understanding that the lactobacilli do not. It is
my understanding that they seem to come from the baker.

Also, when you say of the "culture" that "It is the basis of
a symbiotic ecology which makes sprouting efficient." I
don't get the connection between sprouting, and generating a
sourdough culture (even leaving aside the issue of the
absence of LB on the grain.)

Similarly when you say "There is nothing in the
grain-to-mature-plant cycle that works under water." That
would certainly seem to be true, but how might that fact be
connected to the growth of a viable culture for baking?

It seems rather like suggesting that we cannot make rubber
from latex because there is nothing in the cycle of the life
of the Hevea tree that involves the shedding of the sap...

And finally, in response to Samartha's suggesting stirring,
you ask "Why might this be? Too much water?" but, again, I
don't get the connection. Why would stirring be related to
the amount of water?

I certainly agree with your comment that "the comments about
hooch indicate bad culture practices" but don't see any
(direct) connection to the issue of the amount of water in
the starter.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."