peril wrote:
>>>>On organic farms you won't find the rodent killing
>>>>chemicals that turn their insides to mush.
>>>
>>>Oh, please tell me your source for this information. Here are a few
>>>details I can pass along to show otherwise:
>>>
>>>Organic pesticides cause cancer in rodents (and humans):
>>> One of organic farming's most widely used
>>> pesticides--pyrethrum--has been classified as a ``likely human
>>> carcinogen.'' An advisory committee to the Environmental
>>> Protection Agency made the classification two years ago, after
>>> pyrethrum caused higher-than-normal numbers of tumors in two
>>> different sets of #laboratory# rodents.
>>> http://www.cgfi.org/materials/articl...1/jun_8_01.htm
>
> - by Dennis T. Avery.. see below. (# ^ mine)

Do lab rodents grow tumors differently than field rodents?

<...>
>>>Organic pesticides induce Parkinson's Disease-like symptoms in rodents
>>>(and humans):
>>> Rotenone, a commonly used organic pesticide, has attracted a lot
>>> of attention in Dr. Greenamyre's #lab#. In past studies, Dr.
>>> Greenamyre and colleagues found that rotenone can induce major
>>> features of PD in rats, including slowness, stiffness and
>>> tremor. Published in Nature Neuroscience in November 2000, these
>>> results support the idea that chronic exposure to environmental
>>> pesticides may contribute to the incidence of Parkinson's
>>> disease in humans. With the new funding, Dr. Greenamyre will
>>> continue to research rodent and cell models of PD to determine
>>> which genes cause susceptibility or resistance to the
>>> PD-inducing effects of pesticides.
>>> http://www.scienceblog.com/community.../20022444.html
>
> Organic pesticides are used in conventional farming.

They're also used in organic farming.

>>>Organic pesticides affect more than just target species:
>
> Organic (system):
>
>>> Some organic pesticides may be toxic to nontargets.
>
> .. ; minimize pesticide use'

Conventional farmers attempt to minimize use, too, contrary to your
benighted suggestions to the contrary.

>>>http://www.nysipm.cornell.edu/public...are/which.html
>
> '-Conventional

AND organic.

> Synthetic chemicals

AND ORGANIC

> may be toxic to many nontargets (beneficial insects,
> pets, humans, birds, fish, and other wildlife)
<...>
> All pesticides are poisonous to some form of life; greater use increases risk

NOTE: *ALL* pesticides are poisonous. Including organic ones.

> Composted municipal sewage may bring heavy metals

"May" doesn't mean "always does."

> Runoff with soluble nutrients and pesticides can wash into waterways after rain
>
> -Organic
>
> Strive for ecological balance and minimize pesticide use; build soil and plant
> health to avoid the need for treatment

That doesn't say that the need for treatment is avoided. Like veganism,
organic sets a theoretical goal which sounds laudable but isn't once put
into practice.

> All pesticides are poisonous to some form of life; use safest approved materials

ALL pesticides. Including ORGANIC ones.

> Composted municipal sewage not allowed; manure must be composted to
> avoid active disease bacteria; assess compost quality before use
>
> Runoff can occur with any materials, but less with organic matter that binds
> nutrients to soil.'
>
>
>>>Organic pesticides are as toxic as their synthetic counterparts, and
>>>many of them #are banned# under the Rotterdam Convention:
>>> The Convention has already been signed by 73 countries –
>>> including Brazil – and ratified by 18. It will come into effect
>>> once there are 50 signatory countries.The original products list
>>> included 22 organic pesticides considered to be highly toxic...
>>> http://www.nex.org.br/english/denuci...enenamento.htm
>>>
>>>Finally, but not because I'm out of ammo on the subject, an organic
>>>pesticide called Dichlorodiphenyl trichloroethane #is banned# because of
>>>its pervasive toxicity. You probably have heard of it by its initials: DDT.
>>>http://www.epa.gov/history/publications/formative6.htm
>>
>>Here's more. Organic pesticides kill fish:
>>While some organic pesticides may be nontoxic or are only
>>slightly toxic to people, they may be very toxic to other
>>animals. For instance, the organic pesticide ryania is very
>>toxic to fish.
>>http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm
>
> 'It is important to be careful when using any pesticide, even
> organic or natural pesticides.

Correct -- because BOTH kill a lot more than just their targeted
species. The difference, though, is that the synthetic pesticides you
loathe can be targeted more specifically toward targeted species and
have predictable half-lives. Organic agents, like copper sulphate, build
up in the environment and in animals and cause significant harm because
they remain active longer.

> ..
> Biopesticides are an important group of pesticides that can
> reduce pesticide risks..'
> http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC2756.htm

They don't reduce ALL pesticide risks.
Microbial pesticides need to be continuously monitored to ensure
they do not become capable of harming non-target organisms,
*including humans*. [my emphasis]
http://tinyurl.com/5nfcq

See also:
http://www.entomology.cornell.edu/Ex...Pesticides.htm

>>Organic pesticides kill a variety of non-target species, and foods grown
>>organically are not labeled "pesticide free":
>>Organic pesticides are used widely. Some are toxic. Rotenone
>>kills fish. Copper sulphate kills many creatures. In California,
>>an organic pesticide, sulphur, represents one-third of all
>>pesticide use.
>
> 'Organic pesticides are used widely.' ...
>
> Organic pesticides are used widely by conventional farmers.

And by organic farmers.

>>For obvious reasons, organic farmers don’t call
>>their produce "pesticide free."
>>http://www.ontariocorn.org/ocpmag/pestruth.html
>
> 'Pesticide residues
>
> Over 400 pesticides are permitted for use in the UK. The incidence and
> levels of pesticide residues on foods are monitored annually. 28.6% of
> all foods tested in 1999 were found to contain pesticide residues, and
> 48% of all fruit and vegetables tested (MAFF 2000). The levels found
> are typically very low. Just 1.6% of all foods and 3% of fruit and
> vegetables exceeded the MRL - maximum residue limit - in 1999.
>
> Seven pesticides are permitted for restricted use in organic farming.
> Organic produce is usually found to contain no pesticide residues. When
> residues are present, they are typically of significantly lower incidence and
> levels than those found in non-organic produce (MAFF 1999, Schüpbach
> 1986, Reinhardt & Wolf 1986), and result mostly from environmental
> pollution from non-organic agriculture (Woese et al. 1997, Bitaud 2000).
>
> 'Rigorous safety assessments' are made of all pesticides and it is asserted
> that these incidences and levels do not represent a threat to food safety
> (FSA 2001). However no such 'rigorous safety assessment' has or can
> be made of the infinite number of mixtures of compounds consumers are
> typically exposed to. Individual samples contained up to seven different
> pesticides in 1999. Synergies resulting in greatly increased toxicity of
> pesticides and other agricultural compounds have been observed (Boyd
> et al. 1990, Porter et al. 1993, Porter et al. 1999, Thiruchelvam et al. 2000).
>
> Dietary exposure to pesticide residues has been linked to gastrointestinal
> and neurological complaints (Ratner et al. 1983), breast milk contamination
> (Aubert 1975) and some sperm quality parameters (Juhler et al. 1999,
> Abell et al. 1994, Jensen et al. 1996). The British Medical Association
> urges a precautionary approach "because the data on risk to human health
> from exposure to pesticides are incomplete" (BMA 1992).
> ..'
> http://www.organic.aber.ac.uk/librar...%20quality.pdf

Those dangers stem from the use of organic pesticides as well as
conventional.

>>See also:
>>http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuse...etails&id=1677
>
> DENNIS T. AVERY is based in Churchville, Va., and is director of
> global food issues for the Hudson Institute of Indianapolis.

Correct. They do some very good work using scientific findings against
leftwing activists. Mr Avery's credentials likely don't include a
background in reflexology or inner earth beings. He's eminently
qualified to discuss global food issues.

<...>