On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:41:07 -0500, Art Schubert
> wrote:
>On 11 Feb 2005 12:51:20 -0800, "DaleW" > wrote:
>
>>stemmy/green note to it. Good acidity, but hard and angular. B-/C+
>>
><large snip - please excuse>
>
>Dale:
>
>The words "hard and angular" are just the ones I have been looking for
>to describe a wine that I have had for a while. I am rather new at
>this so I couldn't quite find a name for what I was tasting. I am
>curious if you know what the cause might be?
The cause might be better addressed by the chemically inclined in the
group, but the terminology is an interesting one to discuss.
>
>In my case it is a 2001 Pinot Noir from southwest Michigan. I have
>tried a bottle each year since '02. I think I can recognize tannins
>using the reference to tea and having tried several wines with tannin
>designed to age. The tannins can be strong and give that drying
>feeling but not what I would call harsh or "angular" as is my pinot.
I'll agree that it isn't tannin--my view is similar to yours--tannins
give that astringent finish, the feeling that maybe your mouth has
been dusted with a light coating of talc. There's also the almost
puckery feel that you get with a young wine that hastened yet resolved
the tannins.
Most obvious comparison of tannins, with other factors held constant
was a tasting with dinner a few months ago of a range of 2002 Renwood
Zinfandels. All Zins, all the same vintner, all the same vintage. The
entry level wine, obviously for immediate drinking was nicely smooth
and gave up nice fruit and spicy zin character. The "Grandmere"--the
next to top end of the line was much fuller, heavier in the mouth and
with a whole lot more going on in terms of aromas, flavors and finish.
The "Grandpere"--the top of the line epitomized tannins. It was huge,
but almost unpleasant in the finish. This was a wine that would be
very likely a powerhouse in six to eight years, but really not ready
to be drunk yet.
>
>I have also tasted wines high in acid, especially from up where we
>live. Again I would not call them "hard and angular" but more "tart"
>would be the word; as in drinking lemon juice.
Agreed. Still not "hard and angular."
>
>I have thought possibly ascetic acid but it is not volatile and the
>nose is quite pretty (if a little oaky). And I can't detect anything
>that I could liken to vinegar.
Honestly, has anyone ever encountered a wine made for drinking that
had, ala cliche, "turned to vinegar"? Unintentionally? I've had wines
oxidize and maderize, but never turn to vinegar.
>
>I observe from reading this group that TCA usually presents itself as
>a lack of fruit accompanied (if one has the nose for it) by various
>musty off flavors (wet cardboard, dog etc.). I could find none of
>these in the above Pinot. The fruit in the aroma seemed resonably
>pleasant.
If you've got any sensitivity to TCA, you'll notice it. Some folks,
however, seem impervious. Others are so attuned that they can hardly
be in the same room with a corked bottle. It took me a while to learn
what to look for, but now it explains a lot about wines that I've
disliked in the past.
>
>So I have been looking for the way to describe the sort of thing you
>found in the Nando Chianti. I think "hard and angular" is it.
>
>Does this represent some specific of flaw in winemaking? What might be
>the cause of it, do you think?
Now, having preluded with all of that, what do I think "hard and
angular" is about? I'm thinking unripe fruit. Like fresh strawberries
early in the season versus those luscious fully ripe berries that
dribble juice down your chin. There's a hint of "greenness" in the
fruit. And, there some minerality, maybe flintiness, iron, copper,
etc. Terroir? Maybe.
The question is, while "hard and angular" recede over time--either
time in the glass or long term time in the bottle? If it does, then it
is a question of age rather than a winemaking flaw.
I don't think "h & a" is good for a red, but it is desireable in a lot
of whites.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com