"Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Doug Kanter wrote:
>
>>
>> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Doug Kanter wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Doug Kanter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Lena B Katz" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, TheAlligator wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lena B Katz > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> just don't try using guns to defend yourself... it is _such_ a bad
>>>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>>>> if people want to use stuff to defend themselves, there are more
>>>>>>>>> practical
>>>>>>>>> ideas (like sound grenades).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> never try to defend yourself with something that requires
>>>>>>>>> line-of-sight.
>>>>>>>>> in most situations, you're lucky if you have _awareness_ of an
>>>>>>>>> attack,
>>>>>>>>> before it occurs, let alone time enough to "point, aim, shoot"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> lena
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> guns are offensive weapons.
>>>>>>>> Nothing personal, but I don't like you very much. You sound like
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> idiot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you walk different streets, you learn different lessons. I enjoy
>>>>>>> passing
>>>>>>> on a bit of knowledge that I've learned. If you don't want to
>>>>>>> learn,
>>>>>>> that's fine with me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but why does a good knowledge of the strategic limitations of a gun
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> me sound like an idiot?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lena
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (From a different guy)
>>>>>> I don't think you're an idiot, but you might need to slow down a bit
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> you write.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, maybe try thinking a bit before hitting send. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) "just don't try using guns to defend yourself". That's a silly
>>>>>> generalization.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really. With guns, the hunter always has the advantage. If, say,
>>>>> someone was breaking into your house, and you had a blind (of some
>>>>> sort...), you'd be the hunter. If someone's already drawn a weapon on
>>>>> you, chances are you'd be better off dealing with that without use of
>>>>> a
>>>>> gun (believe it or not, but people with knives can cut you quicker
>>>>> than
>>>>> you can draw a gun... close range for knives is about six feet (That's
>>>>> assuming a 5 second draw-aim-shoot time. Yes, with extensive practice
>>>>> in
>>>>> the art of quickdraw, you can get it down lower.)
>>>>
>>>> If it takes you 5 seconds to draw a carry piece and use it, you have
>>>> bigger
>>>> problems than the situation you're in at the moment. I can do it in 2
>>>> seconds, as can most of the participants of the civilian pistol
>>>> gatherings I
>>>> attend every now and then at my gun club. We're shooting at 8-1/2 x 11"
>>>> targets from 50', and drawing from inside typical outerwear.
>>>>
>>>> You might want to look at the second hand on a watch as it ticks
>>>> through
>>>> 5
>>>> seconds.
>>>
>>> Order of magnitude approximation? What kind of holsters are you using,
>>> btw?
>>>
>>>>>> 2) You suggest sound grenades. That's ridiculous. If you could get
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> easily, half the country's teenagers would be deaf by now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who says they aren't? I'd imagine most teenagers suffer from at least
>>>>> temporary hearing loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> And getting something "easily" is a different idea than getting
>>>>> something
>>>>> because it is _necessary_.
>>>>
>>>> That's a sweet thing to say, but generally speaking, nobody can get
>>>> those
>>>> things, nor would they want to carry them. If they did, they wouldn't
>>>> be
>>>> trained in their proper use. And, it might be tricky asking an attacker
>>>> if
>>>> he could please stand downwind of you.
>>>
>>> Generally speaking you can get whatever you want. It just depends on
>>> how
>>> much effort you want to expend to acquire it. Hell, you could probably
>>> get a fully automatic rifle (yeah, i know people who have them. For
>>> bear
>>> hunting, presumably).
>>>
>>> You can get training in most things, including proper use of grenades,
>>> smoke bombs, and explosives. Hell, they teach those skills to thirteen
>>> year olds, last I checked (when they said boot camp, they meant it).
>>>
>>> Using smoke bombs outside of urban combat is just idiotic. But putting
>>> up
>>> a strawman is idiotic too.
>>>
>>>>>> And, are you suggesting some sort of weapon that works
>>>>>> around corners?
>>>>>
>>>>> Smokebombs do. Sound grenades do. Explosives do. There are many
>>>>> defensive weapons; just as there are many offensive weapons.
>>>>
>>>> You are watching too many movies. The things you've mentioned would be
>>>> absurd options for civilian self defense.
>>>
>>> Not at all. So you're telling me you've got a better solution to twelve
>>> year olds on motorcycles with assault rifles shooting your family?
>>> (here's
>>> a hint-- think "caltrops").
>>>
>>>>>> 4) If you are, in fact, in a situation where a handgun is your only
>>>>>> option,
>>>>>> then by definition, you have no choice but to draw the gun and muster
>>>>>> everything you've learned from practicing.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no situation where a handgun is your "only" option. You
>>>>> still
>>>>> have options like "charging the person" or "physically disarming them
>>>>> by
>>>>> taking a knife in the arm". There are very few times when using a
>>>>> handgun
>>>>> is the "best" option.
>>>>
>>>> In some instances, an attacker or intruder makes a clear request to be
>>>> killed. It is your civic duty to oblige. I hope I never have to, but
>>>> things
>>>> happen, you know?
>>>
>>> No thief wants to meet someone in the house. Bothering them is asking
>>> for
>>> a panicked person.
>>>
>>> While a panicked person with a knife or gun is probably less dangerous
>>> than a panicked person with a car, you're better off just leaving.
>>>
>>> lena
>>
>> Leaving your own house??? Whattya....nuts? If anything, you should have a
>> "safe room", with deadbolt. Let the guy ransack the house.
>
> That's actually a good idea. But it is still a judgement call... how
> likely is the thief to decide that the best stuff is inside that room?
> Yes, it has a deadbolt, but how likely is the thief to have the means of
> getting through the deadbolt? (sulphuric acid does nicely for going
> through _any_ metal).
>
> Lena

When you're ready to continue this discussion using factors that actually
exist in the real world, let us know. Sulfuric acid......gimme a break.