On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Bob Pastorio wrote:

> JimLane wrote:
>
> > Bob Pastorio wrote:
> >
> >> Lena B Katz wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Bob Pastorio wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> JimLane wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Fred" > wrote in message
> >>>>>> t...
> >>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> snip
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why use unsalted butter? For the same reason one
> >>>>>>> should always use unsalted butter and that is because it allows
> >>>>>>> the cook
> >>>>>>> to control the salt level, not the ingredients.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Nonsense. Most recipes using salted butter also call for added
> >>>>>> salt. The
> >>>>>> added salt can be adjusted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most of my cookbooks recommend in the front matter that unsalted
> >>>>> butter
> >>>>> be used. You might want to check that section once in awhile.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This is one of the perennial discussions amongst foodies. The fact is
> >>>> that there's a bit over two teaspoons of salt in a whole pound of
> >>>> American commercial butter. I don't know a recipe where the salt
> >>>> content is so critical as to demand unsalted.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Salt is added to butter to make it last longer.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No. It isn't. It was before refrigeration, but not any more.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Not always the reason. Many people prefer the taste of salted butter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, the original reason salt was added was as a preservative. You
> >>>>> have no position there.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> That was then, this is now.
> >>>>
> >>>>> That people became used to it and then salted
> >>>>> became the standard is another matter.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> To be sure. But the amount of salt in butter today will make not a
> >>>> whit of difference in just about any recipe I've ever seen. A whole
> >>>> stick of butter has a tad over a half-teaspoon of salt.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the info! It's useful in baking, and other places where
> >>> salt flavoring is rather... inappropriate.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, I was mistaken in the figures that I quoted. I inadvertently
> >> doubled the figure for the amount of salt in a pound of butter. Here's
> >> the real info from an older post of mine where I did all the
> >> calculations after weighing and measuring volumes of salt:
> >>
> >> "...the amount of salt in butter is rather trivial for most recipes.
> >> Roughly 90 mgs sodium in a tablespoon of butter. 32 tablespoons of
> >> butter in a whole pound or 2880 mgs of sodium (2.88 grams). That's
> >> about 7200 mgs or 7.2 grams of salt. A tablespoon of table salt weighs
> >> right at 0.6 ounces or 16.8 grams. A tablespoon is 3 teaspoons of salt
> >> which weigh 5.6 grams each. A whole pound of butter will have about a
> >> teaspoon and a quarter of salt in it."
> >>
> >> Most cake recipes include some salt. Look at German Chocolate cake or
> >> spice cakes or pound cakes or even simple white cakes. At least 1/4
> >> teaspoon salt (most start at 1/2) and on up to a teaspoon.
> >>
> >> There's so little salt in butter that I've never been able to taste
> >> the difference in finished product, even tasting side by side. I made
> >> hot milk sponge cakes for the holidays and used salted butter. My
> >> daughter read the recipe and it called for unsalted. She asked what
> >> the difference was and I said, "None." She asked why they'd specify
> >> unsalted and I gave her a cynical answer. She said let's test it. We
> >> did a test and made 4 cakes. Two with salted and two with unsalted.
> >> Couldn't taste any difference. Nobody could who tried them - 12
> >> people. The "testing" went on for two days until there were no cakes
> >> left. (Filled them with a creme patissiere with Grand Marnier and
> >> white creme de cacao, and topped with a dark chocolate ganache with
> >> peach schnapps and brown creme de cacao - sorta an uptown Boston Cream
> >> Pie.)
> >>
> >> The cakes each took 2 tablespoons butter, 5 eggs, 3/4 cup of flour,
> >> 1/4 cup milk, 3/4 cup sugar, teaspoon baking powder, 1/8 teaspoon
> >> salt, teaspoon lemon extract. The butter (if I had measured it
> >> exactly) contained 0.45 grams of salt (28 grams are an ounce), 1/62nd
> >> of an ounce or 0.08 teaspoons of butter. Eight hundredths of a
> >> teaspoon. Less than 1/10th of a teaspoon. That's a Scroogy pinch for a
> >> whole cake intended to serve 8. Combining 1/8 teaspoon salt the recipe
> >> calls for with the 1/12th teaspoon from the butter makes the amount of
> >> salt leap from 3/24 of a teaspoon to 5/24 of a teaspoon. All the way
> >> up to just under 1/5 of a teaspoon in a 9-inch cake.
> >>
> >> Meaningless.
> >>
> >> Pastorio
> >
> > You did a great job of covering any salt flavor with your filling. Why
> > did you not test them plain, cake to cake no extras?
>
> It's the finished products that we were comparing. But years of
> critical measuring and tasting the results says that it's a fruitless
> search at these quantities. I knew it wouldn't make any difference
> from experience.
>
> But can anyone seriously believe that an additional 1/12 of a teaspoon
> of salt will show up as even a remote flavor determinant in the 9-inch
> cake described above? I daresay that folks measuring with spoons will
> make an error within that range while trying hard to be accurate. And
> given that kitchen measures are in the "close enough" category, it's
> hard to imagine that a variation this small wouldn't fall invisibly in
> the cracks.
>
> The pile of salt that makes up 0.45 grams is a small pinch. It simply
> disappears into the other flavors, even without the filling and glaze.
> That ratio of additional salt to the volume of the whole cake is way
> more subtle than anybody I know can pick up.

i had forgotten how little butter cakes actually take.

now, oatmeal cookies (cornell style) take significantly more...

Lena