Bob Pastorio wrote:
> JimLane wrote:
>
>> Bob Pastorio wrote:
>>
>>> JimLane wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You did a great job of covering any salt flavor with your filling.
>>>> Why did you not test them plain, cake to cake no extras?
>>>
>>>
>>> It's the finished products that we were comparing. But years of
>>> critical measuring and tasting the results says that it's a fruitless
>>> search at these quantities. I knew it wouldn't make any difference
>>> from experience.
>>>
>>> But can anyone seriously believe that an additional 1/12 of a
>>> teaspoon of salt will show up as even a remote flavor determinant in
>>> the 9-inch cake described above? I daresay that folks measuring with
>>> spoons will make an error within that range while trying hard to be
>>> accurate. And given that kitchen measures are in the "close enough"
>>> category, it's hard to imagine that a variation this small wouldn't
>>> fall invisibly in the cracks.
>>>
>>> The pile of salt that makes up 0.45 grams is a small pinch. It simply
>>> disappears into the other flavors, even without the filling and
>>> glaze. That ratio of additional salt to the volume of the whole cake
>>> is way more subtle than anybody I know can pick up.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm, I see only your opinion.
>
>
> I'm desperately sorry I didn't convene a focus group to satisfy your
> urgent need for FACTS to demonstrate that 0.45 grams of salt is a tiny
> bit. And that a tiny bit of salt in more than a pound of other
> ingredients wouldn't make a difference. I'm desolated that you haven't
> had your yearnings for absolute 10-decimal-place accuracy satisfied.
>
> Here's a blast for you: kitchen measurements are *never* exact,
> particularly volumetric ones. The equipment we work with in normal
> kitchens isn't designed to be lab-accurate. Teaspoons and tablespoons of
> powders, leveled or not, will be off the exact measure by up to 10%
> depending on compaction. A tablespoon of salt of one size crystal won't
> hold the same weight of salt of a different crystal size. Recipes are
> written and tested by professionals with that understanding in mind.
> Every effort is made to write them to relatively exact measure, but
> cooking is a resilient science and forgives minor departures. A bit more
> or less of most ingredients won't materially affect the dish. Like
> everybody's Aunt Minnie cooks by the handful and it still works.
>
> In this case, the "bit more" is of such a small absolute quantity that
> it's irrelevant and below any threshold of taste.
>
>> Not a fact anywhere in sight.
>
>
> Well, the measurements are factual because I did them and recorded them
> for anyone who would wish to check. I mentioned that a dozen people
> couldn't see any difference. Silly me, I assumed that you could read
> some words on a screen and actually understand them. since I've tested
> saline solutions, by taste, in researching brine strengths, I've sampled
> concentrations down to 1 gram in a gallon of water (couldn't taste salt)
> and up to 300 grams per gallon and had others test them for subjective
> analyses for articles I wrote on brining and for my radio program. And
> that's why I wrote above: "But years of critical measuring and tasting
> the results says that it's a fruitless search at these quantities. I
> knew it wouldn't make any difference from experience." How would you
> have liked the "facts" to have been determined and expressed? How many
> witnesses would it take for you to accept the results? Just any
> witnesses or should they be somehow qualified?
>
> > You are
>
>> assuming that because you MIGHT not be able to taste it in the bare
>> cake, then no one else would either. That is arrogance. And stupidity.
>
>
> What's arrogant and stupid is your insistence that I do *my* experiment
> *your* way. Perhaps you failed to note in my earlier post that a dozen
> people tasted the cakes and were asked about any differences perceived.
> Most of them tasted snippets of plain cake after hearing the question
> from my daughter. Nobody tasted anything different between the cakes.
> Period. My 12-year-old showed better comprehension of what was happening
> than you do. We weren't trying for a Nobel prize, just an informal
> discussion around a diner table.
>
> I'm assuming that since I've actually tested saline concentrations from
> virtually nothing to very salty, I know where it begins to taste
> different. And this ain't it.
>
> See, Jim, I've been a foodservice professional since the 70's. Studied
> in Europe and traveled the world rather widely. I've operated all sorts
> of restaurants. I'm a professional recipe developer and a consultant for
> designing commercial products, some of which are in stores around the
> country. All formulated to extremely exact measurements with very exact
> processing and handling to meet FDA standards and commercial requirements.
>
> I realize you didn't know this, but it doesn't much minimize the
> silliness of your shitheaded note. The facts you crave include numbers I
> provided that you seem unable to grasp or are too unskilled to
> extrapolate from. I gave you a specific recipe to consider and assumed
> that you could understand the significance of the facts of it. Could
> grasp the orders of magnitude involved. Apparently not.
>
> Your note disqualifies you from discussions where the actual product
> isn't in front of you. Either you utterly lack the imagination to
> extrapolate a finished result from a recipe or you lack the kitchen
> competence to appreciate the very small, real-world amounts we've been
> dealing with in this question. Either way, you're over your head.
>
> I also notice that you didn't go test it to see if I was wrong. Just be
> a spectator and fling the contents of your head out onto the field. Go
> taste salt in a pint of water with 1/2 cup sugar in it. Start with 0.45
> grams, 1/12 of a teaspoon, and see if you can taste it. Work your way up
> to maybe 15 grams and see. Don't have a scale that accurate? Ok, borrow
> mine.
>
> And you can save your lame judgments for others who aren't light years
> ahead of you. I'd guess that it would be a small crowd.
>
> Pastorio
>

Here's a fact for you, being as you want to be a clown about this, even
the salt called for in many recipes is too much for my taste and I
regularly halve it. I know others who do the same for the same reason.

Now did you have something to put up factually, or not?

By the way, you are stuck in reverse (the "R" does not mean race on your
Model T.


jim