Rona Y. Apr 22, 5:53 pm

Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
From: "Rona Y." > - Find messages by this
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Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:53:14 +0900
Local: Fri,Apr 22 2005 5:53 pm
Subject: Tough Bread
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>I've been finding that my breads from this place must be eaten while
hot or
>they end up hard and tough--even after just one night. Almost all the

>breads use some butter and many of them use egg, as well. For
example, last
>night I made the Japanese version of challah.
The recipe included (note: I calculated in bakers percent)
>250g flour (about 12.6% protein) 100%
>2 T sugar 10
>1.5 tsp yeast 1.8%
>1/2 tsp salt 1%
>40g butter 16%
>110cc water 44%
>52 g egg (about 1 medium) 21
>IME with American bread recipes, these recipes tend to use more yeast
(in
>proportion to the amount of flour).
Nope ....the yeast is already high enough comparable with western
cookbooks but the sugar is high and the salt is less but considering
the salt in butter the toal salt will be in the vicinity of 1.3%
>The way the breads are made--a very soft dough is kneaded until it
begins to
>take shape (form a ball), then kneaded again (in a different manner),
then
>allowed to rise. At this school, because they require a high turnover
of
>classes, they use proofing boxes set to 40C. For the Challah recipe,
the
>dough was allowed to rise for about 30 minutes. After punching the
dough
>down, it is allowed to rest--in this case 15 minutes, usually about 10

>minutes. Then the breads are shaped and placed in the proofing
box--usually
>for 20-30 minutes, depending on the recipe. Finally baked--at the
school I
>currently attend, we use small gas/convection ovens. The challah was
baked
>in a braided ring shape, at 180C for 12 minutes
The timing of this bread can be described as a short time process and
will certainly encourage the bread to be chewy like rubber and harden
very fast.
This particular recipe should be eaten fresh, as it cools down and
after several hours it can be used a Frisbee.
>Is there anything about the recipe and/or technique that seems to
point
>towards making tough breads? I would like to take these recipes but
make
>them at home with slower rises--would that help? Also, I was thinking
of
>reducing the amount of yeast, which would also help with slowing the
rise, I
>would think (I'm not a very good bread baker, however, so feel free to

>correct me). Could we be over-kneading?
Such short time process as done in baking schools promotes higher dough
temperature which is also another reason for a bread that hardens
rapidly.. it is not about overkneading but the dough seems to be warmer
than normal.

That is promoted also by consistent high proofing temperature to an
already warm dough
I am not sure if your oven has the right temperature baking a challah
ring for 180 and 11 minutes looks short for me. Maybe it was more.
Was the ring thin looking that it dried up the oven? Yes its texture
is soft when freshly baked but when it cools down it becomes hard
easily.
Another thing is the bread appears underproofed . does the bread feels
heavy for its size ?
>I should also mention, that because of the high turnovers we generally
pack
>up our goods to take home while they're still hot--we usually only get
about
>15 minutes cooling rack time. They provide us with plastic bags to do
so.
>I'm thinking of bringing my own paper bags. Would that help, at all?
>(note: this may be reposted to e-Gullet in some form, just in case
you also
>read that group)
Rapid cooling does not affect the softness of the loaf,from how I see
it your bread before and after it was baked is inferior , appears dry
and feels heavy in my minds eye.
In conclusion it was a lousy bread.
You should have placed it on the head of your teacher as a symbolic
crown for his stupid bread making style<g>
Your class should have invited your instructor to the park and play
Frisbee with your recently baked Japanese style challah<g>
As a remedy you can follow the recipe for challah from a well know
baking book used by the folks in alt bread recipes and compare the
result.
Roy

Roy