"TradinDude" > wrote in
nk.net:

> i don't see a hydration problem here necessarily. it is a possibility
> though.
>
> try modifying your kneading technique: do what you're doing, but
> instead of letting the dough fall and stretch, you pick it up and slam
> it into the counter. done right, this makes the dough extend 1-3 feet
> into a string across the counter. fold it up, turn, repeat. kind of
> a fun kneading technique for small batches of dough.
>
> shaping the loaves properly is really a key step, and one that's hard
> to learn from a book. you can have someone show you how to do it, but
> you can also discover how to do it right through a lot of trial and
> error. this is one of the areas where the pros have a real advantage.
> someone shaping hundreds of loaves a day is just going to be better
> at it than you are. mike's advice is solid.
>
> i wouldn't mess with the hydration of your dough, or at the very least
> would only change one thing at a time. if it was me, i'd start with
> proof time and oven temperature first.
>


Tradin:

What about oven temp? How does that affect Hutchndi's results?

I think his hydration probably is something of a problem - the dough's
too wet, and he should soak his coarse granules of seeds for a few hours
before adding them. I'm just wild-guessing some of the hydration in the
dough is a compensation for the fact that flax meal is so dry and willing
to absorb moisture.

The Dough Formula I Use


I like this sourdough formula of:

1.0x = Sponge weight (assuming starter weight = 50/50 water/flour weight
3.0x = Water weight
5.0x = Flour weight
0.1x = Salt weight
0.02x = Ascorbic Acid powder

Note that a 50-50 sponge starts off being quite stiff, and not gooey or
runny. It's like wet dough, and you can barely work it with a spoon. As
the sponge develops over several hours, it loosens up because of
bacterial action, but it is still somewhat stiff.

If the sponge is too wet, you must reduce the water content of the final
dough to compensate. For this reason, if the sponge is too gooey or
soupy, it is wisest to put all the flour and most of the water into your
mixer, mix it till the flour is mostly wettened, let it rest 20 minutes,
knead in the sponge, knead in the salt, and then knead in a little more
water if and as you require it for a stiff (but not too stiff) dough.
The kneading process develops gluten and traps oxygen in the dough
structure to assist in yeast metabolism.

Thae above formula makes a perfect, rather stiff dough that rises well
(with Carl's starter). When processed through a 30-45 minute rise, early
strech-and-fold, 10 minute rest, loaf forming, and then a 2-3 hour rise,
the dough softens a bit and makes perfect loaves when baked half an hour
(skinny loaves) to an hour (fat loaves) at 375 from a cold oven, or even
in a 400F preheated oven.

My oven barely makes it to 450F, so I don't bother trying to bake loaves
at that high a temp. And I have two huge granite slabs in the oven, so I
preheat it for an hour at 400F. My loaves turn out perfect, and they
don't flatten too much if I form them right.

Also, if you want large crumb holes in the bread with the above formula,
you must not over-knead it, for overdeveloping the dough during kneading
makes the gluten structure too strong and prevents a proper rise, keeping
the crumb holes small and closely packed. If the dough is wetter, you can
have large crumb holes, but the loaves will not hold shape unless you use
a banneton and hot oven or you bake them in a pan.

Rightly Forming Loaves


I do not believe it takes a lot of trial and error, nor an in-person
coach to learn how to form loaves so they stand tall.

Let's assume you want to bake 1-pound loaves from round boules. You have
two options:

1. Final-rise the dough in a bowl, basket, or banneton, then invert the
bowl onto the stone or baking sheet before slicing its top and sliding it
into the oven. This makes it hold its shape, but it also risks
flattening, deflating, or destroying its shape if you have let it rise
too long.

2. Shape it by hand in such a way that it holds its shape. For this,
you need stiff dough, made with the above proportions. Cut an 18 ounce
chunk of dough from your dough blob and set it on the counter, bread
board, or glass stove top. With your hands parallel to the working
surface, bring them together to hold the dough, then gently and slowly
spin it around clockwise to make the boule round. As you spin the dough,
use this technique:

a. Lift your hands away from the dough and an inch or two above
the working surface, then touch your palms to the dough and lower them to
the work surface while spinning the dough clockwise. This will gradually
stretch the top surface of the dough, pulling it down the sides to create
a taught top skin.

b. At the end of each spin cycle, press inward toward the dough
with the lower, fat part of your palms when they are at the work surface.
This will tuck underneath the buold the part of the dough you just pulled
down the sides. It thereby keeps the skin taught on the top and sides.

c. Continue the above steps till the boule is a tight sphere, but
take care not to mash too hard on the dough. Remember that it has
incipient gas bubbles forming inside it and you don't want to squish them
out.

d. Set the boule on a baking sheet sprinkled with cornmeal, and
cover it with an inverted plastic container large enough to accommodate
the rise, or with lightly oiled plastic wrap. This prevents the skin
from drying out during the rise.

e. When the rise is nearly double the original size of the boule,
lift the cover and use a serrated or razor sharp knife to make four
slices in the top of the boule, in the approximate shape of a square,
This will allow the dough to continue its rise and spring higher in the
oven without breaking the skin. Cover it for another half hour to hour.

f. Use a spatula or paddle to slide the boule onto the baking
stone. I recommend doing this in a 400 to 450F pre-heated oven because a
thick cold stone will prevent the bottom of the loaf from baking properly
and will retard its spring.


Gonorio