JimLane wrote:

> Hmmm, your Latin seems better than (insult deleted here, P., feeling=20
> courteous this day) Let's step back and I'll try a few different words =

> to put this into perspective.
>=20
> The origin of you and I butting heads was about whether or not the use =

> of salted vs. unsalted butter would be detectable.

Not quite all of it. I see you didn't take my suggestion to go read=20
what you wrote. You were absolutist, belligerent and snide. First with=20
Charles Gifford and then with me. I answered rather moderately until=20
you pressed it.

> Why I got into this, was that there seemed to be an immediate rush (tha=
t=20
> other fella's) that it would make no difference at all and the issue wa=
s=20
> bogus. When you jumped in, you said, no way, Jos=E9, without any=20
> questioning of why people would say what they had been saying.

I read what was on the screen and replied to it rather extensively.=20
Here's the URL for the discussion <http://tinyurl.com/37aaq> Go read=20
yourself. Things like:

"Hmmm, I see only your opinion. Not a fact anywhere in sight. You are
assuming that because you MIGHT not be able to taste it in the bare
cake, then no one else would either. That is arrogance. And stupidity"=20
Doesn't exactly read like a seeker of information might write it.

> In my area, for someone to just jump in with a pronouncement like that =

> without exploring why would be considered very, VERY, unprofessional.

JimLane, it just doesn't matter what else is in your world. I told you=20
the outline of the experiment, I told you the methodology, I told you=20
the universe of testers and I told you their conclusions. I told you=20
that it was an effort to provide a matrix of experimentation for a=20
12-year-old who wondered about something. It wasn't a university=20
study. It wasn't any sort of organized research beyond the very=20
simple, one-variable test. It was also predicated on a rather=20
thoroughgoing body of experiment and experience in my history.

> Note, that once I indicated to you that I was a bit salt-sensitive and =

> used far less salt than called for in recipes, you have backed off.

Not really, I've not really bothered to even try to deal with it. You=20
haven't been listening.

> I am partially to blame for not saying that earlier.

It doesn't really matter. It wasn't about you.

> It is a fact that there are a wide range of tasting capabilities, from =

> people to whom everything tastes like a big mac patty to supertasters.

I'm a supertaster. My daughter is likewise a supertaster. We have both=20
had bitter stuff in out mouths to see if it were so. I don't know=20
about the friends and relatives who participated. But it doesn't=20
really matter. *Everybody* said the same thing even though they=20
weren't asked at the same time and weren't consulting on it. IN the=20
extremely informal survey we did.

> For some of us, the difference in a dish prepared with unsalted butter =

> plus salt and that same dish with salted butter are two very different =

> dishes and the salt levels immediately apparent.

And my experience in feeding hundreds of thousands of people over=20
three decades doesn't bear that out. Empirical information.

Unless the recipe demands a great deal of butter *and* a great deal of=20
salt, my experience is that it doesn't matter whether the butter is=20
salted or not. And in the instance of the hypothetical recipe cited, a=20
minor adjustment solves the whole "problem."

I've used both butters in different batches of the same dish and never=20
had anyone say anything about it or note any difference in finished=20
result. Never. Not once.

> This is why I asked for any peer reviewed research that backed up the=20
> position that the difference in a recipe using salted versus unsalted=20
> butter was a non-issue and didn't make any difference in taste.

JimLane it's become all about *your* taste buds. You've said=20
repeatedly that you can taste the difference. What earthly value would=20
it have to offer a citation that disagrees with your personal=20
position? It won't change your perception of what's happening in your=20
mouth. It won't alter anything. But to put this "peer-reviewed"=20
business to rest, below is a reported study that has bearing on the=20
subject.

> Now, I don't believe in using Latin (even if I could) to jape at=20
> someone. I use very clear English.

This isn't really relevant. Obviously, I do believe in using Latin or=20
any of the other languages I'm comfortable in if they express the=20
though at hand tidily.

> Do you have something to say which bears on the question?

See above about that question.

But there's good news ahead for you. As you age, you'll lose your=20
ability to taste. Salt won't bother you so much.=20
<http://dukemednews.duke.edu/news/article.php?id=3D665>

And here's some honest-to-god science with statistics and charts and=20
technical terms like "moles' and other cool stuff.=20
<http://lib.tmd.ac.jp/jmd/5001/14_ohno.pdf> Look at the=20
concentrations of saline solutions that were undetectable. See the=20
pretty lines in the perceptivity charts. Based on their conclusions,=20
you'll want to forego brushing your tongue before eating. Dentures=20
won't matter for salinity, only bitterness. These were elderly=20
subjects with reduced sensitivity from what they should have been able=20
to perceive when younger. But the mean thresholds of perceptivity is=20
rather higher than I would have thought.

Here's what a molar solution is about=20
<http://www.public.iastate.edu/~bkh/teaching/molarity.pdf>

A molar solution of salt would be 58.44 grams of salt in enough liquid=20
to make a liter. How much salt was in each solution? Well, to quote=20
myself, "A tablespoon of table salt weighs right at 0.6 ounces or 16.8=20
grams. A tablespoon is 3 teaspoons of salt which weigh 5.6 grams each."

1=3D 0.0008 M solution =3D 0.047 g
2=3D 0.0017 =3D 0.099 g
3=3D 0.0033 =3D 0.193 g
4=3D 0.0067 =3D 0.392 g
5=3D 0.0134 =3D 0.783 g
6=3D 0.0267 =3D 1.560 g
7=3D 0.0535 =3D 3.127 g

Note the mean thresholds for perceiving salinity on page 4. Do the=20
math. Are we done with this now?

Pastorio