Bob wrote:
> JimLane wrote:
>
>> Here's the only relevant thing Bob wrote in reply to what brought me
>> into this discussion:
>
>
> Are you being deliberately obtuse? Can you not see that your "show me
> some science" whine has been answered? Can you not see that your request
> for empirical information has been satisfied?
>
>> > Unless the recipe demands a great deal of butter *and* a great deal
>> of > salt, my experience is that it doesn't matter whether the butter is
>> > salted or not. And in the instance of the hypothetical recipe
>> cited, a > minor adjustment solves the whole "problem."
>>
>> And that adjustment might come after someone else
>
>
> Why must it be someone else?
>
>> has tasted and commented on the dish, perhaps, "Bob, this is a bit
>> salty for me."
>
>
> Oh, wait. JimLane's newest twist is that if *anyone* can discern a
> single, lonely molecule of salinity, the whole thing of "salted butter
> won't make much of a difference in the real world" is null, void and
> probably a commie plot.
>
> Poor JimLane seems to want absolute assertion at which point he'll still
> say, "I can tell the difference."
>
>> The question is, is this possible because of using salted vs unsalted
>> butter? Could that difference be enough to tip a dish into the "salty"
>> side of taste for some people?
>>
>> You have been saying "absolutely no way."
>
>
> Really? I said that? I used the word "absolutely?" I said that in my
> experience it wouldn't. I say that in the experience of a dozen people
> who participated in a specific, informal experiment it didn't. I'm
> saying that the paper I cited (Sunday morning and again Sunday evening)
> said there were thresholds below which people couldn't even perceive
> salinity and the amounts were of the orders of magnitude used in recipes.
>
>> I have been saying prove that with replicable research, not opinion,
>> not anecdotal stories.
>
>
> I did. You're still asking for the information you've already been
> given. But no matter what, it won't change your mind since you say you
> can taste salt at extremely low concentrations.
>
>> What peer-reviewed research do you have on people's perceptions of
>> taste that proves your point - that this can make no difference at all?
>
>
> You're trying to make my position be absolute. It isn't, of course
> because finally it's either a matter of a person's personal taste
> perception or what *they say* to some researcher. There is no objective
> measurement possible.
>
> Did this part of the message I sent at 7:41 Sunday morning get past you?
> You're replying to it, how could you have missed it so completely?
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<begin quote >>>>>>>>>
> And here's some honest-to-god science with statistics and charts and
> technical terms like "moles' and other cool stuff.
> <http://lib.tmd.ac.jp/jmd/5001/14_ohno.pdf> Look at the concentrations
> of saline solutions that were undetectable. See the pretty lines in the
> perceptivity charts. Based on their conclusions, you'll want to forego
> brushing your tongue before eating. Dentures won't matter for salinity,
> only bitterness. These were elderly subjects with reduced sensitivity
> from what they should have been able to perceive when younger. But the
> mean thresholds of perceptivity is rather higher than I would have thought.
>
> Here's what a molar solution is about
> <http://www.public.iastate.edu/~bkh/teaching/molarity.pdf>
>
> A molar solution of salt would be 58.44 grams of salt in enough liquid
> to make a liter. How much salt was in each solution? Well, to quote
> myself, "A tablespoon of table salt weighs right at 0.6 ounces or 16.8
> grams. A tablespoon is 3 teaspoons of salt which weigh 5.6 grams each."
>
> 1= 0.0008 M solution = 0.047 g
> 2= 0.0017 = 0.099 g
> 3= 0.0033 = 0.193 g
> 4= 0.0067 = 0.392 g
> 5= 0.0134 = 0.783 g
> 6= 0.0267 = 1.560 g
> 7= 0.0535 = 3.127 g
>
> Note the mean thresholds for perceiving salinity on page 4. Do the math.
> Are we done with this now?
> <<<<<<<< end quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> We're done with this now, JimLane. I'm not going to continue with this
> sort of dissembling from you. I've answered every question you've asked,
> explained what I did, what the intentions were, and explained from the
> principle under which it was formulated to the instance. I've stated my
> premises, thinking, positions, and third-party data and restated them in
> different words hoping you'd grasp it. If you still want to know about
> the subject, and it doesn't seem that it's the case, I suggest you go
> looking by yourself. I'm confident that no matter what you find, it will
> either be "insufficient" or it will confirm what you already "know."
>
> Bob
>

Apparently, JimLanes anal probe is stuck way too high to be removed. The
aliens were unnecessarily vicious and malevolent this time around.

Rich

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Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.