Rudy Canoza wrote:

> Pesco-vegan wrote:
> > Rudy Canoza wrote:
> >
> > > > > Fish are animals, no matter how you want to rationalize it away.
> > > >
> > > > Your point being?
> > >
> > > You aren't a "vegan" if you eat them,
> >
> > I don't claim to be a vegan.
>
> You have "vegan" as part of your inane posting ID, and you clearly with
> to capture some of what you falsely imagine to be the ethical cachet of
> "veganism".

My consumer habits are influenced by AR principles if that's what you
mean.

> > >*and* your attempt to rationalize
> > > why you eat them is crap.
> >
> > Whatever.
>
> Yeah, "whatever". People who say that are unimaginative. They're also
> defeated, but they don't have the graciousness to make a more
> forthright concession.

Of course. I mean "Your attempt to rationalize... is crap" is
a brilliant refutation to which there is no answer. I just
didn't have the graciousness to admit it before.

[snip]

> > > > It is not generally specifically recommended in the same way that
> > > > fish is. Dairy products are rather controversial, recommended by some,
> > > > frowned upon by others.
> > >
> > > *None* of them are "vegan", including fish.
> >
> > Oh, aren't you a clever boy.
>
> Aren't you the snide, deflated little bit of nothing.

When in Rome......

> > > > > > In general it takes more land and more energy to grow meat
> > > > > > than it does to grow vegetables.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's an utterly irrelevant point.
> > > >
> > > > It is a standard argument used by vegetarians
> > >
> > > It is utterly irrelevant.
> >
> > No it isn't.
>
> Yes, it is. It is completely irrelevant.
>
>
> > > > and it is hard
> > > > to argue against the idea that more efficient use of the
> > > > planet's limited resources is desirable.
> > >
> > > It's a total misrepresentation of what "efficiency" is. There is
> > > NOTHING "inefficient" about using land and other resources to produce
> > > meat.
> >
> > Check out this comparison for usable protein yields per acre
> > from different foods. Soybeans 356, Rice 261, Corn 211, Other
> > legumes 192, Wheat 138, Milk 82, Eggs 78, Meat (all types 45)
> > ,Beef 20. Consider what % of the calories in each of these
> > foods is protein and the comparison becomes even less favourable
> > to the animal foods. My source is a leaflet published by CIWF.
> > The source they quote is: USDA; FAO/WHO/UNICEF Protein Advisory
> > Group.
>
> It's meaningless. It has NOTHING to do with economic efficiency,

I wonder whether quite as much meat would be consumed in a free market
economy. I have heard it claimed that government interventionalism
favours meat production but I don't know if this is truth or
veggie propoganda.

> and that's the only kind of efficiency that matters.

Economics has a deservedly important place in society but
it makes a number of unreasonable, implicit assumptions
that ought to be corrected for. Land is the lifeblood
of the planet and as such has an intrinsic value, not simply
a commercial one.

> > > > > > This argument is widely
> > > > > > used to justify vegetarian diets but doesn't apply to fish.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course it applies to fish, you dummy.
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to have a conversation on this newsgroup
> > > > without insults being thrown around like confetti?
> > >
> > > Stop saying absolutely and unequivocally silly and stupid things, and
> > > then check to see if it's possible.
> >
> > So you won't be uncivil if I agree with you? How kind;-)
>
> No guarantees.
>
>
> > > > > Most fish are "farm raised".
> > > >
> > > > Not the fish I eat!
> > >
> > > Baloney. If you ever eat salmon or catfish, you're most likely eating
> > > farm-raised fish.
> >
> > In my country, labelling regulations require that the origin of fish,
> > including whether they were wild or farmed must be stated. I have never
> > eaten catfish. Wild Salmon is easy enough to come by.
>
> If you eat it, you're contributing to the depletion of wild salmon
> stocks by overfishing.

*Some* wild salmon stocks are overfished. Not the ones I eat.
http://www.fishonline.org/search/simple/?fish_id=130