Leo, our service industry has centered around a tip for service....the
better the service the higher the tip. The worse the service the lower the
tip. Personally I have never stiffed a waiter completely. Even if I had a
complete ass which has happened a few times I did not stiff. I left 10%
because I still figured the server deserved to eat. Hopefully they would
eventually get fired or find another job that fit their personality.

That said...if the restaruant and customers viewed the service industry of
wait staff as professionals...tipping would be rude. You don't tip Doctors,
Lawyers, Accountants, Financial Advisors....nor would you tip a wait staff.

They could include and show pricing as final or show at bottom of the bill
the % added. In reality there is no difference to me.

When in Europe I had outstanding service in France, Spain, etc....tip was
included. In USA I have had excellent service when no tip was included.
When entertaining large parties and tip was included for 6 or more service
did NOT suffer.

Therefore I think you are making more of this than it is. In reality if you
had poor service and service was included you would speak to the manager.
That does not mean that the wait person gets away with giving you poor
service. In my experience....wait staff does not deserve to be taken
advantage of and I remember my youthful days working my way through college
as a waiter...you can give OUTSTANDING service and some customers simply did
not tip or tip well enough. They therefore get a sale vs everyone else.

I do think if you value the service as a profession it should be compensated
as such. Method of invoicing that service as "service included at __% or
just raising pricing and indicating "No tipping allowed" works for me. No
difference to me at all. Assuming you live in Florida Publix Supermarkets
has a No Tipping policy for Baggers that take your groceries to the car. It
used to be and probably still is posted on the doors of the store. They
view their baggers as professionals and you still get the excellent service.






"Leo Bueno" > wrote in message
...
>
> Two separate issues. First, tipping under the circumstances described
> below (never went before, never will go back) seems to be bad
> economics, particularly for the tipper, who gets nothing in return for
> his tip. Note the tip comes at the *end* of the service, so the tip
> obviously was not an incentive for the staff to provide better
> service--unless, that is, the staff has a crystal ball that told them
> that the tipper would be a good one.
>
> The second issue is that adding a percentage to the total bill as a
> tip is a deceptive practice, intended to make the cost of the meal
> items look cheaper than they really are, thereby making the restaurant
> appear more competitive.
>
> Suppose restaurant A advertises $20 for a 2 pound lobster and
> restaurant B advertises $19 for it. If restaurant B then tacks on an
> automatic 15%, then its real price is $21.85.
>
> What price do you think restaurant B advertises for its lobster
> dinners?
>
> This is a trick used in many industries to make the dirty players'
> products appear cheaper than honest competitors'.
>
> For example, years ago some cruise operators used to advertise, say, a
> Caribbean cruise for $900 plus "port charges", implying money they had
> to pay as landing fees to ports at destination countries.
>
> Turns out the "port charges" included no only the amount of money the
> operator had to pay port authorities but a kicker they pocketed. So,
> the $900 advertised price was a fraud.
>
>
> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:06:45 GMT, "Richard Neidich"
> > wrote:
>
>>Leo,
>>
>>I don't understand...what is your objection to a restaurant including the
>>tip in 15%-20% on your behalf already included in the bill?
>>
>>Assume the service is impecable....what is your issue?
>>
>>
>>"Leo Bueno" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:02:52 GMT, "interested" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>This never works in practice, because everyone knows if you do
>>>>not tip, your service is not only not the best, it is deliberately made
>>>>worse.
>>>
>>> So, how do you explain tipping at a restaurant that you have never
>>> gone to before and to which you will never go back again?
>>>
>>> In other words, how does a wait staff that has never dealt with you
>>> know that you are a good or bad tipper? And, since you are never
>>> going back to the restaurant, what's in it for you? Since there will
>>> be no next time, then your tip gets you nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> =================================================
>>> Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
>>> Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
>>> =================================================
>>
>
> --
> =================================================
> Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
> Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
> =================================================