Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Ernst Primer wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you were not found guilty of a term of service violation?
> > > > >
> > > > > No. If I were, you would not be seeing this post which is reaching the
> > > > > Google servers through BellSouth wires.
> > > >
> > > > My apologies.
> > >
> > > Your trespass (bearing false witness) has been forgiven by me.
> >
> > No false witness was borne
>
> That is not what I have discerned.

It is your choice to proclaim an untruth as a truth.

>
> > nor was any forgiveness asked for such
> > an act.
>
> It would be your choice to withdraw your request to be forgiven.

That may be true, but no request to be forgiven was withdrawn,
despite your proclamations of discerning otherwise.

>
> > My apology was for believing something said by another that was
> > not true, based on your correction of the record.
>
> Propagating the false witness of another is the same as bearing false
> witness.

Requesting verification of ostensibly truthful testimony from the
subject of said testimony is not the same as bearing false witness.

>
> > If you wish to
> > forgive that error, or to forgive me for a sin that was neither
> > committed nor apologized for, that is your choice.
>
> It is my choice to forgive your trespass.
>
> > >
> > > > I did not run an IP trace.
>
> It would be your choice to use this deficiency to justify your false
> witness.

It would be your choice to focus on this deficiency to mistakenly
bolster your false claim of false witness.

>
> > > Yours is an illustration of the wisdom in the LORD's suggestion to
> > > leave judging to the omniscient (Matthew 7).
> > >
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > apologize if I got my facts wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be my choice to forgive you.
> > > >
> > > > Such is the nature of apologies.
> > >
> > > Your trespass (bearing false witness) has been forgiven by me.
> >
> > No trespass was asked forgiveness for, as none was committed. Above,
> > I say "I apologize if I got my facts wrong."
>
> Getting your facts wrong about someone is bearing false witness
> concerning that person.

Asking for verification of incorrect facts from the subject of said
incorrect facts is not bearing false witness. Instead, stating the
facts without attempting to verify said facts in any manner would be
bearing false witness. Also, accusing others of misdeeds they have
clearly not committed would be bearing false witness (looks at Dr.
Chung).

>
> > I did not ask forgiveness
> > for repeating untruths about you as if they were true.
>
> Repeating untruths about someone as if they were truths is bearing
> false withness concerning that person.

Requesting verification of assertions stated by another as truth is
not the same as bearing false witness. Those who describe the behavior
of such a person as "bearing false witness" ironically bear false
witness themselves.

>
> > >
> > > > > > > An agent of BellSouth had verbally requested that I remove the
> > > > > > > Christian content in my signature. My response was that I might
> > > > > > > consider it if he put his request in writing but he refused. Requests
> > > > > > > to meet with the BellSouth CEO, Duane Ackerman, about this matter were
> > > > > > > rejected. A complaint with the Better Business Bureau has been
> > > > > > > ignored. Mediation is pending and if that fails, this matter will go
> > > > > > > to court:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > which I assert
> > > > > > > > > > can be regarded in many cases as an indication of this problem's
> > > > > > > > > > existence.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The untruthful are bothered by the truth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But just because someone is bothered doesn't necessarily logically
> > > > > > > > follow that a) truth is being spoken or that b) those that are bothered
> > > > > > > > by what is being spoken are untruthful. The other theory that would fit
> > > > > > > > the data is that you're frequently unable to engage in discourse with
> > > > > > > > people without violating basic written and unwritten rules of social
> > > > > > > > behavior.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In truth, a signature is not part of any written discourse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In truth, your concept of discourse and communication is limited.
> > > > >
> > > > > Concepts are by definition limited.
> > > >
> > > > I meant to say, overly limited.
> > >
> > > Then you meant to offer a meaningless opinion.
> >
> > In your opinion. Again, your concept of discourse and communication
> > is overly limited.
>
> The truth remains that a signature is not part of any written discourse
> despite their both being part of a written communication.

The self-evident truth is that your signature is part of **this**
written discourse, at this very moment, which puts lie to your
statement, above. :-)

>
> > > > > > > > > > The problem of course being your manner of relating with
> > > > > > > > > > others.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It will forever remain my choice to stick with the truth. Sorry if
> > > > > > > > > that bothers you or others.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't be defensive, I'm not bothered about the content of your
> > > > > > > > beliefs, actually.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The truth is independent of my beliefs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By definition.
> > > > >
> > > > > and the very nature of the truth which is infinitely larger than any
> > > > > language constructed to describe it.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly. Language is imperfect, as are those who wield it.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > I've been (mildly) bothered by the process of how
> > > > > > > > you interact with others, however.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your choice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As always.
> > > > >
> > > > > Such is the free will that GOD has given you, me, and others.
> > > >
> > > > Except when it comes to your capacity to choose disregard the truth
> > > > - didn't you say that capacity no longer exists?
> > >
> > > Loss of ability is not loss of free will.
> >
> > Ability and capacity are not the same thing.
>
> They are in your context.

You offered the claim of lack of capacity, therefore the context is
yours.

>
> > > > > > > > > > I'll concede that sometimes it may have something to do with
> > > > > > > > > > you being so outwardly Christian, but you're missing the boat if you
> > > > > > > > > > think that's the only reason.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It remains my choice to not guess at what the LORD sees in the hearts
> > > > > > > > > of others.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Probably a safe choice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Safety resides only with the LORD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you say so.
> > > > >
> > > > > It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully.
> > > >
> > > > As it is mine despite your contrary proclamations.
> > >
> > > If this had been your choice, there would have been no need for you to
> > > apologize earlier for bearing false witness.
> >
> > There was no apology tendered for bearing false witness, despite
> > your words indicating otherwise.
>
> See above.

Answered above.

>
> > If I had not asked you to verify the
> > information and identify what was false and what was not, then false
> > witness may eventually have been committed.
>
> You asked for verification **after** being called on the false witness.

Actually, the archives do not support your untrue words. Would
suggest you review the post in question, at http://tinyurl.com/abyap

*****

(from the post in question)

(Ernst): I may have been speaking figuratively, but quite literally,
bad things tend to accompany your interactions with people.

***

This, of course, was the self-evident truth that I continue to
witness in you, Dr. Chung. Regardless of the nature of your transaction
with Bellsouth.

>
>
> This would be analogous to a murderer asking about the law against
> murder in order to use his/her question as evidence of ignorance and
> ignorance as defense for the crime.

In truth, your analogy is faulty, as the "crime" in my case was
forstalled by requesting verification prior to propogation or witness
of any false testimony.

In your zeal to make your untrue case of false witness (and thereby
committing the same misdeed you allege to describe in others), you
remind me of a corrupt local law enforcement official gleefully
enforcing illegal speed traps.

>
> > > > > > > > > > Christianity may have fixed you
> > > > > > > > > > spiritually, but it hasn't fixed you dispositionally.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In your opinion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not just mine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only the LORD's judgment matters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For most Christians, the LORD's judgement is the one that
> > > > > > **ultimately** matters.
> > > > >
> > > > > The LORD continues to guide me in all that I say, do, or write.
> > > >
> > > > You should work harder on following his guidance more precisely.
> > >
> > > In your untruthful opinion, which is meaningless.
> >
> > ????
> >
> > You're saying you don't need to work harder?
>
> What has been written points to your ignorance.

In truth, your words speak emptily of ignorance in another while
highlighting your own.

<snip>