On 19 Nov 2005, Sheldon wrote:

>
> jmcquown wrote:
> > Elaine Parrish wrote:
> > > On Thu, 17 Nov 2005, Christine Dabney wrote:
> > >
> > >> Okay folks,
> > >>
> > >> We were chatting on the chat channel, and we started talking bout
> > >> butter beans. I grew up in VA, and I had them all the time. To me,
> > >> they are smaller than a lima, and a pale green. And they stay that
> > >> way when they are cooked. Boli agrees with this description of them.
> > >>
> > >> Others in the discussion say they are much larger, and tan. Or buff
> > >> or khaki colored.
> > >>
> > >> I have never seen butter beans like that...
> > >>
> > >> For those of you who know about butter beans, what is your
> > >> description of them?
> > >>
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >
> > > 'Round here, a butter bean is a big, plump, cream-colored, kinda
> > > half-moon-shaped (like the lima) bean about the size of an average
> > > thumb nail on a man
> > >
> > > The lima bean is a medium sized (about the size of the index finger
> > > nail), grass-green, plump bean. The sizes vary because all the beans
> > > (two, three, or four) in the pod don't mature at the same time. If
> > > picked very young, they can be as tiny as the tip of the little
> > > finger (much like the difference in size in "young, green peas" and
> > > regular green peas).
> > >
> > > The Fordhook lima is a large, plump, green, tougher-skin-than-a-lima,
> > > bean about the size of the butter bean above.
> > >
> > > Then there is a little (smaller than the lima) and more round than
> > > half moon thing that is light green and some are so light green as to
> > > look white and some can be a combination of light green and lighter
> > > green. We call this a butter pea (not a butter bean).
> > >
> > > There is also a brown butter bean, called a speckled butter bean,
> > > that is a tad bigger than a regular lima and is "speckled"
> > >
> > >
> > > The big, cream-colored butter beans aren't seen very often in stores
> > > around here. They
> > > come canned, but they are not good, because they are hard (or this has
> > > been the case with the only few brands I have ever found that offered
> > > them, which haven't been very many; Bush's comes to mind.). They come
> > > dried, but they don't reconstitute well and when cooked, the casing
> > > (the part that holds the soft insides (just like the insides of the
> > > lima bean) separates and the insides come out. Because they are soft,
> > > they just thicken the cooking water. The casing stays intact, but it
> > > is empty. So, they don't make a side dish like limas do. Of
> > > course, cooked with a little ham and poured over a bowl of cornbread
> > > dotted with raw chopped red onions or spring onions, this "soup" is
> > > mighty good on a cold winter's day.
> > >
> > > I have never seen them frozen. hmmmm
> > >
> > > We had them when I was a kid, but we grew them in the garden.
> > >
> > > Elaine, too
> >
> > I've never read a better description of butter beans! Thanks, Elaine! Yep,
> > Bush's makes canned large butter beens. I've never seen them frozen,
> > either. They are definitely bigger than even a Fordhook lima bean and are
> > tan/yellow.
>
> Couldn't have bean a more inaccurate description... once again for the
> IQ impaired, butter bean (hillybilly vernacular) is exactly precisely
> synonymous with lima bean. All beans are graded so naturally they can
> be found in various sizes, but size has nothing to do with anything,
> they're the same bean. With limas there are either babys or fordhooks;
> different type of lima. Either type can be mottled; hybridized.

Yes, Sheldon, I understand that, for the last 10 years, every time there
is a topic you wish to address, you run to the internet, Google, and copy
and paste what ever it says, and post it to the group. That's fine and
many times you impart some nice information - especially when you are in
your Dr. Jekyll persona. When you are in your Mr. Hyde persona, your
posts disintegrate considerably - usually to curse words and name calling.
We know you are doing the best you can with what you have to work with.
And, yes, you're the family pet - kinda like Cujo - and we love you.
Although, some days, I wish you could actually catch one of those cars you
chase.

Whereas, a "butter bean" may well be in the Lima family and may be a
variation, a "butter bean" is distinct from the commonly accepted green
lima bean, just as a Fordhook is different from the commonly accepted
green lima. The Fordhook is not just a lima bean that is left on the vine
to grow bigger. The butter bean is not just a little green lima bean that
has matured.


To say that a butter bean is "exactly precisely synonymous" with a lima
bean is to say that you have never eaten one. It is to say that Granny
Smith apples are "exactly precisely synonymous" with Red Delicious apples
because both are apples, or Ribeye steak is "exactly precisely synonymous"
with round steak because both are steak, or any of the other millions of
things that share a common name or category. Even a bell pepper, in its
different stages of maturity, is not "exactly precisely synonymous" with
its other stages.

The beans and peas I outlined in my post are all distinctly different in
texture and in taste and each comes from a seed that is different in size,
shape, and coloring. Having picked, shelled, and eaten them cooked fresh
from the garden, I can say that they are very different, whether they are
in the same botanical family or not. They are not stages of the little
green-colored bean we commonly know as a lima. One does not plant the seed
of the little green lima bean and get speckled butter beans as a
aberration. I've shelled too many of both.

All one need do is buy a can of beans labeled "lima" and a can of beans
labeled "butter beans" and pour them out into a bowl and look at them.
They are not "exactly precisely synonymous", IQ and hillbilly vernacular
notwithstanding. You said you bought two cans of butter beans and they
were awful. If you bought two cans of butter beans and opened the cans,
then you would have seen that they don't look at all like a can of beans
labeled "lima" (they don't taste the same, either). Is this how you drew
the conclusion that butter beans and lima beans are "exactly precisely
synonymous"? You read that "exactly precisely synonymous" part on the
internet. Then you bought two cans of butter beans and looked at them and
tasted of them, determined that they were awful. Did they look like little
green lima beans? Did they taste like little green lima beans? Had you
made the comparison, your answers would be "no". So you are saying that
you decided that your
eyes and your taste buds lied to you and that, because the internet said,
"exactly precisely synonymous", that must be the truth? Did you buy
Fordhooks, speckled butter beans, and butter peas, too, (and wax beans,
that you referenced) and decide that
what you see and taste is a lie, but what you read is the truth? Empirical
evidence should not be so lightly dismissed. It makes us too much like
the herd animals. Must have been your Mr. Hyde day. Logic has eluded you.

Butter beans (save Bush's efforts and perhaps a few other canners) have
gone the way of Creasy greens, Polk Salad, and cultured butter - probably
for the very reasons outlined in this thread, including the lack of an
sufficient way to preserve them. The lack of cultured butter is a mystery
to me, save it being an acquired taste.

If this reaches you on your Dr. Jekyll day, good for me. If it reaches you
on your Mr. Hyde day... sic, cujo, sic. I know your dealing the best way
you can.

Elaine, too













>
> Frozen limas/butter beans are readily available in most
> stupidmarkets... and many brands, from generic, to store brands, to
> name brands, to Birdseye.
>
> I recenty tried Bush's canned butter beans (bought 2 cans last week -
> on sale at half price - must be a new product promotional), just
> awful... but then again I don't care for any Bush's products... their
> beans are way over cooked and much too watery.... there are very few
> butter beans in those cans, it's mostly water, the beans are mushy and
> most are broken with their skins floating about like so many toenail
> clippings, and did I mention *salty*... Bush's products are also
> typically over priced.
>
> http://www.birdseyefoods.com/birdsey...yLimaBeans14oz
>
> http://www.foodsubs.com/Beans.html#lima
>
> lima bean = butter bean = Madagascar bean = wax bean Pronunciation:
> LIE-muh Notes: With their buttery flavor, lima beans are great in
> soups or stews, or on their own as a side dish. The most popular
> varieties are the small baby lima bean = sieva bean and the larger
> Fordhooks. You can get limas fresh in their pods in the summer, but
> many people prefer to use dried lima beans. Shelled frozen limas are a
> good substitute for fresh, but canned limas aren't nearly as good. The
> biggest downside is that lima beans are harder to digest than other
> beans. Substitutes: fresh lima beans OR fava beans (more flavorful)
> OR soybeans
> ---
>
> Sheldon Legume
>
>