"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
...

> Pizza Port is the only place that comes to mind that fits both bills
> consistently. Of course, it's hardly in the area under discussion.
> Frankly, Blake, if you've not been, it might be worth the 125-mile (one-
> way) drive from Ontario. And I mean that. It just might be worth it.

There's the one in San Clemente now. So, probably only like 100, 125 miles
round-trip.

> In any case...Makes me all the more grateful for places like Boogaloo
> and Father's Office (the latter of which is becoming more and more of a
> nightmare - a victim of its own success).

"No one ever goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra

> Dunno about Chicago style pizza. I suspect your view is based on your
> direct and somewhat nostalgic experience and is therefore far too narrow
> to be useful to most people.

No, it's based on the fact that BJ's and the likes of Lou Malnatti's, Geno's
East, etc. have absolutely nothing in common other than the presence of some
cheese, some tomato sauce, and some sort of thing involving flour underneath
it all.

>
> I think the pizza at BJ's is good, but perhaps not excellent. Chicago
> (pronounced "Chikwago" if I'm not mistaken) style pizza...maybe not.
> But what do you call it? BJs Style?

Standard faux "Chicago" style. It's not much different than the wrong way
I've seen so-called Chicago pizza done all over the place. Seriously, it's
just as bad, if not worse, than places all over the country serving "Philly"
cheesesteaks involving green peppers and Swiss cheese, two ingredients that
can't even be found in any of the cheesesteak places I've been to in Philly.

> I'm also guessing there's variation (and therefore the subject of
> endless discussion) in Chicago itself. Just a guess.

There is. For instance, Lou Malnatti's has more of a pastry-style crust,
while Geno's does a polenta crust. And Giardano's does a stuffed pie. But
there is one thing pretty constant: it's not a big, doughy, gloppy crust
like BJ's. Chicago pizza crust is actually fairly thin. The deep dish comes
with lots of sauce and lots of cheese. Lots of cheese.

> I saw some guy on the Food Channel one night and he claimed the business
> he inherited (don't remember the name because I don't care) invented
> Chicago style pizza. And then he made one. "Gotta put the cheese down
> first. A *real* Chicago style pizza starts with cheese, *then* the
> sauce."

Sounds about right.

> Looked like New York style to me with bigger crust and covert
> cheese.

The curst is most comporable to a pie crust. As in an apple pie or the like.
Deep sides, but not thick. There are a lot of variations on the crust, as
noted above, but the template doesn't vary much.

> Did it look like a BJ's pizza? Not even sort of.

My point exactly.

> Haven't had
> a "real" Chicago pizza, so I will reserve opinion (for a change), but I
> do think that BJ's makes a good pizza no matter what the label.

And see, even there, I don't really agree. Then again, I haven't found good
pizza at all in southern California yet. Just some acceptable pizza, as well
as some truly attrocious pizza (like one place down the street from me).

> How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak (disclaimer: I've never
> been to Pat's or Geno's). There's a reason you can't get a "real"
> Philly cheesesteak outside of, what?, two venues at the source?

Lot's of cheesesteak places other than Pat's and Geno's.

> It's
> just a stupid ****ing mess of a sandwich. Not a hard sandwich to make -
> give me 30 minutes notice and I'll whip one up for you. And yeah, I
> can. I'll have to go scare up the ribeye, Cheese Whiz, and "Italian"
> roll (I suspect Italians have the same opinion of Geno's roll as you do
> about BJ's pizza). Onions I have, and it seems to me that they should
> be required rather than optional. The roll *might* be the only thing
> that gives me trouble.

Find me some white American cheese, and we'll talk.

Or, hell, I'll take you up to Burbank, and we'll go to a place that people I
knew who grew up near Philly swear is the best, most authentic cheesesteak
they've had outside of Philly.

> But to your point: One ought not call Heineken a Belgian Tripel. And
> you should stop snivelling/whinging/whining about BJ's pizza.

Only when you stop snivelling/whinging/whining about In 'N Out Burger. Every
bit as bad and over-rated as you think they are, that's what I think of BJ's
pizza.

-STeve