View Single Post
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to rec.food.baking
Chembake Chembake is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 163
Default Unusual bread technique


Hey, chembake...
>I've been trying to get home-made French bread to approximate the bakery
>versions for an article I'm writing. They haven't been bad, but neither
>were they good.
>A Northern Italian professional baker who recently located near here
>said my proportions were fine, but I needed to change the times and
>volumes of rise. He also said I should let it work at 75°F rather than
>warmer or cooler.
>Mix with cool water. He said it can be done in a mixer, by hand or in a
>processor. As long as the dough doesn't get warm. Knead 50 strokes. Put
>into a bowl, cover with plastic wrap and let rise.
>First rise takes between 1 1/2 and 2 hours (in a bowl that he said not
>to grease, so I didn't, and a tiny bit stuck. Not enough to make a
>difference.), but only rises to about 150% of initial volume. It rises,
>but it's dense.


Hi Bob!
It seems that your dough is still young when you punched it.I am not
aware if the yeast you are using is really that active or the amount is
sufficient.I have some perception that the dough is rather tight.

>Then punch down and knead 50 strokes, floured board.


I don't understand that procedure what is the need for 50
strokes....?
Is Gary Coleman the baking tutor of your instructor..?.
Different strokes for different folks? <just joking> But That procedure
will result in a tighter crumb...which can be elastic

> Let
>rest for a few minutes and roll and pull to a 14-inch rectangle and roll
>from the wide sides into the center (as though making palmiers).


Bob that is not the way how to mold a French stick properly,,,but that
is how beginners used to mold their breads.
Or Unless the bread is really firm that rolling it like a Swiss roll is
the way to get an even dimension of the loaf.

>Pinch
>the seam, turn it on its side and roll/pull again. And bring in the
>sides again and pinch it closed. Let rise on floured towel (no sticks to
>hold them up - dough stiff enough not to need it) seam side up, covered
>with floured towels, until it rises to three times volume. Roll over
>onto peel, slash and bake on a stone or a baguette pan (done both and
>both were excellent) at 450°F for 20 minutes (throw 1/2 cup water into
>the oven), lower heat to 400°F for another 20 minutes.


The water should be thrown earlier to create steam, before the loaves
are loaded and not after,,,maybe the oven is leaky...?Anyway some
people do that and still can get a satisfactory crust but not the best.

>It's all wrong if my school baking instructors are to be believed.
>Overworked. Dough too stiff - 460 grams flour (strange mixture - 450
>grams high gluten and 10 grams whole wheat - never heard of anything
>like that), 300 gms water (salt, yeast) - and this 75°F is either too
>cool or too warm depending on whether a warm or cold rise, by normal
>processes.


Your recipe states 460 grams flour and 450 grams high gluten flour and
10 grams whole wheat flour. Assuming your first flour is all purpose
and the second is high gluten then the total flour protein content
460/920 x11 + 450/920 x14 +10/920 X 14.5=5.5 +6.85 +0.15=12.5% protein,
still within range for a general purpose bread flour.Now you added 300
grams water for a 920 grams flour ?...you are making an extremely tight
dough.!Think about it the absorption is 32 %.

This looks like a recipe for a pasta dough not a bread dough to me...
It might have been better If he replaced all the flour combination with
durum semolina (the yeast was not added) and the water replaced with
eggs and then passed to the pasta machine <grin>.
I think your teacher was a former pasta maker who think he can convert
his pasta recipe into bread by modification of the ingredients and
including some yeast.
I am sorry to tell....this instructor of yours baking skills is of an
apprentice bread baker...I think you can teach him how to do breads
better than the other way around...I know a lot of chefs are
moonlighting as bread bakers and indeed many of them can attain good
bread making skills.

>The bread was wonderful. When it was cooling, it "sang" as the crust
>crackled.


Hmmn...I would imagine the dough is humming the Ride of the Valkyrie by
Wagner<grin>...I mean the cracking can have a rhythm..?

> The inside was chewy and light, even bubbles, moist crumb, no
>sign of layers. Clean crust. I washed one with egg white to see how it
>would take and it shined like it was made of golden glass. Very high
>gloss, full gelatinization in the crust, no porosities except in the
>slash, which I didn't wash.


IMO a French bread does not need to be washed...but as that is in the
home situation and not the ideal oven for such item, that will help the
crust formation and browning but the color will not look natural.

>What do you think of this recipe approach?


Honestly...I don't find the recipe and methods represent true French
bread..
It's a mish mash of pasta making and bread making!
First the dough is tight and the crumb grain is expectedly tp be
closed grained ( which is a defect). A dough for French bread should be
soft not tight. The crumb should be irregular and open and the crust
appearance does not necessarily be glassy appearing but will have crust
cracking in some places. The slash should expand extensively even
showing the surface to bulge.
The use of firm dough is like some women who inject silicone in their
bosoms to create a bold look<grin>.. Yes it looks nice and sexy,
But ...I don't get turned on by that<grin>..

>Three rises,

That's reasonable if done properly...with proper recipe.

>two full kneads and then the forming and shaping that was to roll out,


If the dough was undermixed or made by autolysis method there is a need
for some kneading but if the dough is fully mixed... its not
recommended as that will further tighten (and oxidize) the dough
resulting in blander bread taste.

> fold and re-roll and re-fold. Triple volume for the shaped loaves? I also tried it >with
>quick-rise yeast and, as I expected, the finished flavor was nowhere
>near as good as with the Red Star dry active.


BTW what kind of yeast were you using is it compressed, or instant? The
supposed better flavor from Red Star dry active was from the autolysis
by product of dead yeast cells .That will produced peptones and
peptides which are enzymatically broken down to more amino acids and
degradation products of yeast cells( nucleic acids ) that provide
better bread aroma than with bread made with fresh yeast nor instant
yeast which is deficient in such dead cells.

>Texture was good, slightly
>faster, but it tasted like supermarket French bread.

I am not sure what you mean by faster, but its expected that the bread
taste slightly better than cardboard.<grin>..