chembake wrote:
> Hey, chembake...
>
>> I've been trying to get home-made French bread to approximate the
>> bakery versions for an article I'm writing. They haven't been bad,
>> but neither were they good. A Northern Italian professional baker
>> who recently located near here said my proportions were fine, but I
>> needed to change the times and volumes of rise. He also said I
>> should let it work at 75°F rather than warmer or cooler. Mix with
>> cool water. He said it can be done in a mixer, by hand or in a
>> processor. As long as the dough doesn't get warm. Knead 50 strokes.
>> Put into a bowl, cover with plastic wrap and let rise. First rise
>> takes between 1 1/2 and 2 hours (in a bowl that he said not to
>> grease, so I didn't, and a tiny bit stuck. Not enough to make a
>> difference.), but only rises to about 150% of initial volume. It
>> rises, but it's dense.
>
>
> Hi Bob! It seems that your dough is still young when you punched
> it.I am not aware if the yeast you are using is really that active or
> the amount is sufficient.I have some perception that the dough is
> rather tight.

The dough *is* tight. That's why I was asking your opinion about it. I
let it develop for 1 1/2 hours before the second kneading.

>> Then punch down and knead 50 strokes, floured board.
>
> I don't understand that procedure what is the need for 50
> strokes....? Is Gary Coleman the baking tutor of your instructor..?.
> Different strokes for different folks? <just joking> But That
> procedure will result in a tighter crumb...which can be elastic

I know. And it should have produced an extremely chewy bread. But it didn't.

>> Let rest for a few minutes and roll and pull to a 14-inch rectangle
>> and roll from the wide sides into the center (as though making
>> palmiers).
>
> Bob that is not the way how to mold a French stick properly,,,but
> that is how beginners used to mold their breads. Or Unless the bread
> is really firm that rolling it like a Swiss roll is the way to get an
> even dimension of the loaf.

I usually have done it as a single roll from one side. It's been good
enough, but this result was far better.

>> Pinch the seam, turn it on its side and roll/pull again. And bring
>> in the sides again and pinch it closed. Let rise on floured towel
>> (no sticks to hold them up - dough stiff enough not to need it)
>> seam side up, covered with floured towels, until it rises to three
>> times volume. Roll over onto peel, slash and bake on a stone or a
>> baguette pan (done both and both were excellent) at 450°F for 20
>> minutes (throw 1/2 cup water into the oven), lower heat to 400°F
>> for another 20 minutes.
>
> The water should be thrown earlier to create steam, before the loaves
> are loaded and not after,,,maybe the oven is leaky...?Anyway some
> people do that and still can get a satisfactory crust but not the
> best.

I didn't write it well. I threw the water in and maybe 30 seconds later
put the bread in.

>> It's all wrong if my school baking instructors are to be believed.
>> Overworked. Dough too stiff - 460 grams flour (strange mixture -
>> 450 grams high gluten and 10 grams whole wheat - never heard of
>> anything like that), 300 gms water (salt, yeast) - and this 75°F is
>> either too cool or too warm depending on whether a warm or cold
>> rise, by normal processes.
>
>
> Your recipe states 460 grams flour and 450 grams high gluten flour
> and 10 grams whole wheat flour. Assuming your first flour is all
> purpose

Oops. I meant that it was 460 grams total, comprised of 450 grams bread
flour and 10 grams whole wheat. Sorry for the confusion.

King Arthur unbleached bread flour - 12.7%. King Arthur traditional
whole wheat - 14.2%

> and the second is high gluten then the total flour protein content
> 460/920 x11 + 450/920 x14 +10/920 X 14.5=5.5 +6.85 +0.15=12.5%
> protein, still within range for a general purpose bread flour. Now
> you added 300 grams water for a 920 grams flour ?...you are making an
> extremely tight dough.! Think about it the absorption is 32 %.

32% hydration, and Schwarzenegger couldn't work it...<G>

Actually comes to a little over 12.7% protein, a small fraction over.

300 grams water for a total of 460 grams flour.

65% hydration. This is actually a bit higher than what we did in my
restaurant. There, with constant, low-pressure steam injection, we used
a 58% standard.

> This looks like a recipe for a pasta dough not a bread dough

<LOL> Not quite that tight... but I see how you thought that.

>> The bread was wonderful. When it was cooling, it "sang" as the
>> crust crackled.
>
> Hmmn...I would imagine the dough is humming the Ride of the Valkyrie
> by Wagner<grin>...I mean the cracking can have a rhythm..?

No rhythm. <G> But a nice melody. Just that quiet crackling sound from a
good crust in the moments after coming out of the oven.

>> The inside was chewy and light, even bubbles, moist crumb, no sign
>> of layers. Clean crust. I washed one with egg white to see how it
>> would take and it shined like it was made of golden glass. Very
>> high gloss, full gelatinization in the crust, no porosities except
>> in the slash, which I didn't wash.
>
> IMO a French bread does not need to be washed...but as that is in the
> home situation and not the ideal oven for such item, that will help
> the crust formation and browning but the color will not look natural.

Understand. I washed it after taking it out of the oven. I don't like
the color of breads egg-washed before.

>> What do you think of this recipe approach?
>
> Honestly...I don't find the recipe and methods represent true French
> bread..

Sorry for the confusion. For a minute I couldn't understand how you got
your 32% figure... Then I looked closer.

> The use of firm dough is like some women who inject silicone in their
> bosoms to create a bold look<grin>.. Yes it looks nice and sexy, But
> ...I don't get turned on by that<grin>..

I know. But it's a good protection in case they fall forward.

Pastorio