Don Kirkman wrote:
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> article >:
> >Don Kirkman wrote:
> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> >> article >:
> >> >Don Kirkman wrote:
> >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> >> >> article >:
>
> >> >> >It is written that the disciple "Doubting" Thomas was essentially an
> >> >> >atheist until he saw the risen Jesus saying he would not believe in the
> >> >> >resurrection until he had the opportunity to put his hand into Jesus'
> >> >> >side and his fingers through the holes of HIS hands. Thankfully, he
> >> >> >changed his mind upon seeing the risen Jesus and decided to accept
> >> >> >salvation through faith when he declared "My LORD and my GOD!" (John
> >> >> >20:28)
>
> >> >> So Jesus had an atheist among his disciples?
>
> >> >Yes. HE also had a money-worshipper (Judas Iscariot) among his
> >> >disciples.
>
> >> Irrelevant and not at issue.
>
> >Actually this is relevant. If Jesus picked out a money-worshipper to be
> >a disciple then why not an atheist?
>
> >We are all sinners and fall short of HIS glory.
>
> Irrelevant to the issue.

That is not what I discern.

> A money-worshipper may well be a theist.

A money-worshipper can not follow Christ Jesus not only by the example
of Disciple Judas Iscariot who was chosen to follow the LORD only to
betray HIM but also in the account of the rich man (Matthew 19:16-24).

> An
> atheist cannot be, by definition.

"With man this is impossible, but with GOD all things are possible."
--LORD Jesus Christ

> >> >> Or have you once again
> >> >> failed to comprehend the plain English?
>
> >> >No.
>
> Apparently the answer should be "yes."

No.

"Let your yes mean yes and your no mean no." -- LORD Jesus Christ

> >> >> Nowhere does it say Thomas did
> >> >> not believe there was a god, but he refused to believe, without physical
> >> >> proof, that Jesus was alive again.
>
> >> >IOW, he refused to believe that his friend/teacher was/is GOD.
>
> >> It is not truthful to add to what is written in the Bible.
>
> >Actually, these discussions are not adding to what is written in the
> >Bible.
>
> >Thomas' declaration "My LORD and my GOD!" stands as written in John
> >20:28
>
> And how does that indicate he had never believed in God before that?

This reveals that Disciple "Doubting" Thomas tended to believe only that
which he sees. Prior to Jesus, he had never seen GOD so it logically
follows that he did not believe in GOD.

> He
> is saying that he somehow has come to equate Jesus with God, not that he
> (a practicing Jew) had never believed in the God of the Jewish history
> before that time.

Jesus is GOD of the Jewish history before that time, though many have
and will continue to deny HIM up until the end but then finally every
knee will bend, every head will bow, and every tongue confess that HE is
King of kings and LORD of lords.

> Elementary logic, my dear Watson.

Indeed. Those with discerning hearts are masters of logic.

> >There is nothing that either you or I can write here in these USENET
> >groups to change that.
>
> It doesn't need changing--your shallow literalism continues to lead you
> astray.

You will have to make up your mind concerning the specific accusations
that you desire to level as you once again choose to bear false witness.

> >> According to
> >> the story the issue was never whether Jesus was God but whether he had
> >> risen from the dead.
>
> >Only GOD can resurrect HIMSELF from the dead to defeat death.
>
> Yet the usual doctrine is that God the Father resurrected Jesus, thought
> by his disciples to be the Son of God.

The truth transcends all doctrine:

"We are going to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the
prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. HE will be handed over
to the Gentiles. They will mock HIM, insult HIM, spit on HIM, flog HIM,
and kill HIM. On the third day, HE will rise again." -- LORD Jesus
Christ

> >> Are you deliberately distorting Biblical teaching,
> >> or merely showing your ignorance of the subject again?
>
> >It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully.
>
> No, it obviously remains your choice not to answer questions and to
> continue writing whatever pops into your troubled consciousness.

The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and write.

> >> >> That is not "essentially an atheist"
> >> >> but a person who basis his beliefs on evidence.
>
> >> >A person who refuses to believe in GOD until s/he sees GOD is
> >> >essentially an atheist.
>
> >> But that is not the issue in the passage you're trying to use as
> >> evidence.
>
> >This is the issue in our discussion and Thomas' declaration "My LORD and
> >my GOD!" upon seeing the risen Jesus Christ stands as irrefutable
> >evidence that Thomas was an atheist up until that moment.
>
> Repeating the error you made above does not change it to a true
> statement.

See above.

> >> >> You, being wiser than the disciple, find it possible to believe all
> >> >> sorts of improbable things without proof either physical or
> >> >> metaphysical.
>
> >> >When faith is placed in the LORD, all things become possible.
>
> >> QED
>
> >Indeed it is so written.
>
> Yes, you have demonstrated (Quod Erat Demonstrandum) that you "find it
> possible to believe all sorts of improbable things without proof either
> physical or metaphysical."

Proof remains subordinate to the truth.

> Sorry that you so obviously missed the connection between what I wrote,
> your reply, and the QED. :-) <G> lol rotflol

"Written laughter is silent despair."

Sorry this discourse causes you great despair.

Please forgive all my iniquities.

You will remain in my prayers, dear Don whom I love, in Jesus' most
precious and holy name.

May GOD continue to draw you closer to HIM.

Will be available to "glow" and chat about this and other things like
cardiology, diabetes, Bird Flu, the 2006 global earthquake advisory,
cooking and nutrition that interest those following this thread here
during the next on-line chat (03/16/06) from 6 to 7 pm EST:

http://tinyurl.com/8w7uq

For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
the LORD has reshaped me:

http://tinyurl.com/7mcuo

Prayerfully in Christ's love,

Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/rgsp8