On 19 Apr 2006 08:02:51 -0700, Todd K. > wrote:
>
> In an effort to have a firmer dough at bake time, I tried the "no
> knead" technique. I still ended up with gloopy dough that would not
> hold its shape after forming into boules. There is some oven spring,
> but bread is still kinda flat and dense.
>
> I have been using a sponge method with a total hydration of 60%. 28%
> of the flour and 55% of the water go into the sponge upfront. The
> sponge ferments overnight (~14 hrs), then the rest is added, mixed and
> fermented about 4 hours (with real good "doubling"). Boules are shaped
> and let rise another hour or two, then slashed and baked.
>
> The only thing I know to try now is reduce the hydration to say, 55%.
>
> Am I on the right track?


Hmmm... I can imagine a post in an art related newsgroup. "I made a
painting of my aunt Alice. I used good paint, a good brush and canvas.
But... it doesn't look anything like her. Am I on the right track?"

There are a number of no-knead techniques. I have used, and expoused, a
stretch and fold technique. When you stretch and fold, you do it often
enough that the dough is developed. You can tell when this happens by
feel. Some doughs need more stretch and folds, others less. You have to go
by feel. But, that's not all there is to it.

With 60% total hydration, the dough should be fairly firm. However, despite
this being rec.food.sourdough, I don't know from your post that your sponge
is a sourdough sponge. I'll assume it is.

The numbers you provide about the sponge makes me think it is too liquid.
And with a liquid starter, things happen more quickly than with a dryer
starter. As a result, in 14 hours, your starter could be in pretty bad
shape. Bad enough shape to quickly start what DIck calls "dough rot". When
a starter gets hungry enough, the starter can produce enzymes which can
breakdown protein. This causes problems with regards to the consistency of
the dough.

When you let the dough rise too long in the final rise, you can get a spread
out dough. When the dough reaches its peak, you need to bake it. If it
sits too long, then you get into troubles.

In short, a number of things could be happening here, and I am afraid your
note doesn't give me enough information to make strong suggestions.

Mike